Clutch presure hard again........??????
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Clutch presure hard again........??????
Clutch went out, so had the dealer put new one in and by the best Vette Mechanic in Atlanta and was baby soft. Now that several months have gone by, clutch pedal is hard and spongy felling again.... What is the deal with it now. I know its not the clutch, but could it be.... Any thoughts would be of great help.....
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
It could be the plastic bushing between the clutch pedal pin and the clevis on the clutch master cylinder rod. I will post the $6 GM part number when I get home.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
Remove the panel below the steering column. Lie on your back with your head in the footwell and look at the clutch pedal and the pin that goes through the clevis. The clutch rod should be in the plane of the clutch pedal and the bushing should not be distorted.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (jfb)
Thanks I will look at this when I get home tomorrow from work.... My leg is starting to give out in traffic....... I want it baby soft again...hope this will be it. I the slave cylinder needs replacing what would run cost and where could I get one other than the dealer?
Thanks again...
Thanks again...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (jfb)
Well,
I got the part, and it sure don't look like much..... I don't see how this will help the hard pedal.... I guess I was thinking of a bigger bushing....
I will try to look at it tonight....many thanks to all..
any other thoughts would be great.
Oh, by the way, does anyone know if they still a rebuild kit for the slave/ master cylinder....meaning both? GM does not anymore...and a new slave cylinder is $200.00...not much there for that kind of $$...Oh well thats the Corvette way and I would not have it any other ....... :cool: :cool:
I got the part, and it sure don't look like much..... I don't see how this will help the hard pedal.... I guess I was thinking of a bigger bushing....
I will try to look at it tonight....many thanks to all..
any other thoughts would be great.
Oh, by the way, does anyone know if they still a rebuild kit for the slave/ master cylinder....meaning both? GM does not anymore...and a new slave cylinder is $200.00...not much there for that kind of $$...Oh well thats the Corvette way and I would not have it any other ....... :cool: :cool:
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
When the bushing distorts or breaks, it allows the clutch rod to be at an angle which reduces the mechanical advantage of the clutch pedal and therefore takes more force to actuate the clutch. Also it doesn't allow the rod to travel as far and it may not fully disengage the clutch which makes your shifter hard to put into gear and cause grinding.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (jfb)
If it is not that little bushing, what else may I look for? Quick question, The bushing I purchased, it is just a little prong like peice of plastic the size of a dime with a hole in it and maybe about 3/8" thick....Right???
Just want to be sure.
Thanks again jfb...
Just want to be sure.
Thanks again jfb...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
Well, I changed the bushing and no difference.... But, I did see that I am almost out of fluid....I think maybe I should have checked this 1st. Maybe I have air in the line now and thats why its hard. What do you guys think. I will try to load the system with fluid and bleed. Anybody have a esy way to bleed and or the how to?
thanks in advance for the help...
thanks in advance for the help...
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
Air in the system will not cause higher pedal force. The slave cylinder is removed and lifted so the bleeder is the highest part in the system and the bleeder screw is opened while the pedal is depressed and then the bleeder is closed with the pedal still depressed. Even after doing this, I had air in my clutch hydraulic system that after 5 days (I drive my 87 everyday) it finally worked its way out. You might consider squirting some oil on the clutch pedal
bearing surface. If the clutch rod is straight in line (perpendicular to the firewall), and the pedal fulcrum is lubricated, then the only thing left is the pressure plate .
bearing surface. If the clutch rod is straight in line (perpendicular to the firewall), and the pedal fulcrum is lubricated, then the only thing left is the pressure plate .
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (jfb)
Yeah I lubed it today....If my slave cylinder was going would it cause this? When I was looking at it today, the rod was straight and all lined up. But here is a kicker for you. I was driving home from work last week and all of a sudden the clutch was baby soft just for about a minute, and I was like oh yeah...it fixed itself...NOT...went right back to the same hard pedel. When I had the new clutch done the pedal had no play in it.....meaning it had tension right fromthe start. It was just right and but nice and soft to push. Now it has about 2" of sponge, then hard pedal after that... Well if it is the clutch, should still be under warranty... I think I had a year...
What do you think..STRANGE :confused: :confused: :confused:
What do you think..STRANGE :confused: :confused: :confused:
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
Not only is it strange, its darn aggrevating. I bled my new clutch slave many times and it stayed spongy, but on the 5th morning to go to work, it was firm. Now how can air stay trapped for 4 days and then overnight find its way out? :mad :eek: :D :lol: I guess its better to have trouble with your car than anything else in your life.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (jfb)
I agree with you on that one...... I added fluid tonight after I got home from the race today and took it for a ride to see if anything would free up. Felt the same.... Who knows.... I will try bleeding it over the holiday.......
Pro
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 509
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From: Illinois
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
C4 clutches and their bleeding is a subject that I finally mastered (pun intended). You've got air in there. Your fluid went somewhere. Over time, the rubber in the system breaks down. Is your fluid discolored? Brake fluid wants to absorb water from the atmosphere and contaminate itself, break down the rubber parts, and screw up your system.
The problem is that it's a tough bleed job, in C4's you're trying to force the bubbles straight down. They don't want to go.
My problems were over when I bought the Phoenix bleeding tool. It's perfect for difficult bleeding jobs because it injects new clean fluid in at the bottom of the system, and forces the bubbles up and out through the master cylinder. Keep bleeding, because one air bubble will make the system not work, period.
Lastly, don't forget to let the fitting "burp" and spit some fluid out just before you close it.
The whole operation is a very aggravating, frustrating, knuckle busting pain.
But after I properly bled my system, all my problems (that were similar to yours) went away. I didn't know how bad it really was until I fixed it.
Good luck.
[Modified by Clark, 11:20 PM 11/18/2001]
The problem is that it's a tough bleed job, in C4's you're trying to force the bubbles straight down. They don't want to go.
My problems were over when I bought the Phoenix bleeding tool. It's perfect for difficult bleeding jobs because it injects new clean fluid in at the bottom of the system, and forces the bubbles up and out through the master cylinder. Keep bleeding, because one air bubble will make the system not work, period.
Lastly, don't forget to let the fitting "burp" and spit some fluid out just before you close it.
The whole operation is a very aggravating, frustrating, knuckle busting pain.
But after I properly bled my system, all my problems (that were similar to yours) went away. I didn't know how bad it really was until I fixed it.
Good luck.
[Modified by Clark, 11:20 PM 11/18/2001]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (Clark)
Clark,
I have looked for where the fluid went, but cannot locate. I don't understand how this happens... I still have not tried to bleed it yet, but will over the long weekend. Where can I get one of those bleeding tools and how much does one cost? Or should I just take it back to the dealer and have them check it? I really do thank you for all the info. Oh, by the way my fluid is not discolored in any way. I guess I got air when I did not notice the fluid low and when I did it was about empty, meaning I could se the rubber in the bottom of the canister. My bad.... I had never had this happen before in any other car....
I may need to touch base with you on this issue again for some help as I am doing it at home. If you don't mind...
If you can think of anything else that would help that would be great. Like I said I had a new clutch about 6 months ago and it was baby soft. Now forget it.....It's spongy and there is about 3 inches of nothing, then a sponge feeling... and I drive everyday..( only driver )..So my leg is about to give out setting in traffic ...bumper to bumper.... Thats Atlanta for ya.... I just want it like when I replaced it...... You know what I mean.....
Thanks again....
Pete
I have looked for where the fluid went, but cannot locate. I don't understand how this happens... I still have not tried to bleed it yet, but will over the long weekend. Where can I get one of those bleeding tools and how much does one cost? Or should I just take it back to the dealer and have them check it? I really do thank you for all the info. Oh, by the way my fluid is not discolored in any way. I guess I got air when I did not notice the fluid low and when I did it was about empty, meaning I could se the rubber in the bottom of the canister. My bad.... I had never had this happen before in any other car....
I may need to touch base with you on this issue again for some help as I am doing it at home. If you don't mind...
If you can think of anything else that would help that would be great. Like I said I had a new clutch about 6 months ago and it was baby soft. Now forget it.....It's spongy and there is about 3 inches of nothing, then a sponge feeling... and I drive everyday..( only driver )..So my leg is about to give out setting in traffic ...bumper to bumper.... Thats Atlanta for ya.... I just want it like when I replaced it...... You know what I mean.....
Thanks again....
Pete
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,117
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From: DFW TX
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
Like Clark, I tried many times before I finally figured out how to bleed the clutch properly. I got a vacuum bleeder to use on mine. I used a different tool than he did apparently.
Remove the slave and bleed with the valve upwards.
Fill the master, get under and pump the vacuum a couple times.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
(do not let pump so much that the master goes dry or you start over)
I do the procedure enough to totally replace all the fluid.
I always know when I've got it fully bled because the pedal will be real real hard when I first put the slave back on. Then after startup and a couple of pumps it goes to normal.
Of course if you have a bad slave or master, in a little while it will go soft again.
Good luck....
[Modified by 92corvette, 7:40 PM 11/20/2001]
Remove the slave and bleed with the valve upwards.
Fill the master, get under and pump the vacuum a couple times.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
(do not let pump so much that the master goes dry or you start over)
I do the procedure enough to totally replace all the fluid.
I always know when I've got it fully bled because the pedal will be real real hard when I first put the slave back on. Then after startup and a couple of pumps it goes to normal.
Of course if you have a bad slave or master, in a little while it will go soft again.
Good luck....
[Modified by 92corvette, 7:40 PM 11/20/2001]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 992
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From: Atlanta GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (92corvette)
I thought on the my year I did not have to remove the slave cylinder to bleed. Where can I get one of these vaccum pumps?
Thanks for the info....I will put it to work for me tomorrow. If you have anymore tips on bleeding that would be great.
Thanks again.....
Thanks for the info....I will put it to work for me tomorrow. If you have anymore tips on bleeding that would be great.
Thanks again.....
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 1
From: Norcross GA
Re: Clutch presure hard again........?????? (apollo30346)
I have a hand vacuum pump you can borrow, but I don't know how much success you will have. I tried it on mine, and found it easier to do it manually. Doing this is a two person operation.
You were at RdAtl this past weekend? I was w/ the Audi that was kicking the B group around. Nice to see all the Vetts out there.
You still have that old slave cylinder? I've been trying to find out what thread size the bleeder screw is on that. I wanna install a speed bleeder to take most of the hassle out of bleeding. I'd like to measure the screw if you still have it.
You were at RdAtl this past weekend? I was w/ the Audi that was kicking the B group around. Nice to see all the Vetts out there.
You still have that old slave cylinder? I've been trying to find out what thread size the bleeder screw is on that. I wanna install a speed bleeder to take most of the hassle out of bleeding. I'd like to measure the screw if you still have it.