I want to replace my 165 ECM to have better programmability for my 406, in terms of richness at idle and future wide-band usage for better turning

So, I am considering making the move to a Accel Gen 6 or Holley Commander 950 this winter. I'm liking the HC-950 since it is newer.

I know that my stock harness will have to be altered, I know that the HC-950 will replace my ECM completely.

Either one better than the other, experiences?

 

Why would you limit yourself to using only the Gen 6 and 950 controllers? Personally, I would consider a Fast XFI unit as a good solution to your problem. The adapter harnesses that are around now (fasttrackperformance.com as an example) require very little from you to switch from the stock ECU to the aftermarket unit.

With the XFI, you can also control TCC lockup which previously used to be a fairly expensive option taken care of by more advanced piggyback boxes (like the fast track). The XFI has good vendor support, lots of advanced functions for forced induction if you ever go that way, closed loop idle and WOT (as well as running alpha-N if you so desire), and in general is one of the more advanced boxes out there now.

I have been really happy with the FAST bank-to-bank (pre-XFI) system in my car. For your application I don't think you really need to bother going sequential injection, but that is an option with the XFI if you have a dual-sync distributor. The software on the FAST side is being regularly updated for the XFI and their customer service has been helpful when called upon.

You could consider the Big Stuff 3, but I think that it will likely come in much more than the XFI and certainly way more than the 950. If you're really interested in Accel, then definitely a GEN7 is a good box as opposed to the DOS based GEN6 unit.

Not too many people are running the 950, so the amount of advice or help that you might get with that on the Vette is probably more difficult than what you'd get with the FAST, Gen7 and even BS3.

My $0.02.

Ron

 

Well this is a winter mod so I have time to invesigate other systems... but with that said, I wont be spending $2k on a management system

 

You may want to consider getting an older FAST unit used if you're trying to stay under 2K. It would be a better system than the GEN6 or the 950 if those were your two choices. If cost is the driving factor and you don't mind playing around more, perhaps Megasquirt is up your alley as an option.

Ron

 

Depending on your application and engine mods, its always best to retain your old ECM for engine controls. I have found that unless you have a real radical engine the old and venerable 165 ECM will handle just about any combination.

 

The aftermarket DFI's appear to be much more user friendly and more flexible. After looking at the Commander 950 manual, I feel very confident that I could tune my own setup, but not so much with the 165.

With the 950, you can re-pin your harness and you are done, cost,, $590, and you can piggy back the stock ecm if you like as well. You can run a wide band and have internal data logging for a total cost of @ $800-$900, that's a good deal for what you get.

I am certainly no expert and a 100% noob at this but the 165 beat me down due to lack of documentation and support, I don't have countless hours to dink with the 165 and I am tired of having my ECM laying on my floorboard for 2-3 years now.

I'm still investigating this, I'm in no rush!

 

I will agree with you on the Holley documentation. It's actually the best that I have read with respect to the aftermarket ECU documentation. It's a lot better than both FAST's online documentation, and Accel's guide.

The one thing to note though is that you still essentially need to know the same things about the motor to tune it with the aftermarket ECU vs the stock one (aka, if you need 22 degrees of timing at 2800RPM with your setup, you're going to need close if not identically the same timing with the aftermarket ECU).

Lastly, if you're going to go through the expense of the aftermarket ECU, there's little point in doing it without the WB02 sensor as you've already noted. A thing to check (which I am unsure for Accel and the 950) is whether or not you can use an off the shelf Bosch WB02 as opposed to one that is calibrated specifically against the ECU which costs way more (we're talking $60 vs $370). This was a problem with the old FAST box which has recently been solved, but may be a problem for the GEN6 or 950. I know with the Gen7, you can interface the Innovative LM-1 into it, but that costs several hundred dollars last I checked.

I would also check on the AVG MPG readout on your dash and whether or not that will remain working after you switch to the aftermarket ECU. This was an issue with many piggy-back harnesses that was solved by Fast Track Performance.

Ron

 

Good points, I'll check into the Wide Band cost.

But I know the dash functions will be gone unless I piggy back the stock ECM to the ECU, not a concern for me.

 

Even piggybacking doesn't guarantee that the AVG MPG will function. Just something worth checking into.

Ron

 

Larry,

My ecm and all associated wiring are gone and the only thing I lost was avg mpg.

The dash takes it info directly from dedicated sensors and senders not interfaced with the ecm! speed, tach, oil press/temp, coolant temp, volts and so on...

However...my 4+3 is gone, I am not sure what effects no ecm would have on the OD control or control of an automatic.

 

Yes this is what I was told by Jim at Jims Perforamnce he really knows his stuff!

 

I know of a Gen 6 for sale.

Did you purchase one yet?

 

I'm running the old gen 6...........you do have to run windows 95 because of the gen 6 DOS programing...........and there's very little help out there for you..........as far as the gen 7........accel will talk to you about it.......some programers can run program it........it uses a wideband o2 and you can set a a/f at differrant rpm and it will ajust to those a/f's.........if your going cheap use gen 6........but use what ever your local tunning/dyno shop can tune with

 

The guy who made the programming for Fast started his own company called Big Stuff.