ACCELERATION: Vette vs Jet Aircraft
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,518
Likes: 19
I did that yesterday. A 757 leaves the runway at 200 mph and cruised at 610 mph. I will bring a stopwatch with me next time and check the 0-60
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,991
Likes: 2
From: Hanger 18 Taxachusetts
737 @ 150MPH
757 @ 160MPH
Plus an airliner needs more runway than a fighter jet to get to that speed I would think a Vette would have some chance. It's a 1 mile drag race to 150MPH? I bet the Vette blows it away off the line but the jet obviously will accelerate much longer and faster so it should catch up.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,518
Likes: 19
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...ce/q0088.shtml
737 @ 150MPH
757 @ 160MPH
Plus an airliner needs more runway than a fighter jet to get to that speed I would think a Vette would have some chance. It's a 1 mile drag race to 150MPH? I bet the Vette blows it away off the line but the jet obviously will accelerate much longer and faster so it should catch up.
737 @ 150MPH
757 @ 160MPH
Plus an airliner needs more runway than a fighter jet to get to that speed I would think a Vette would have some chance. It's a 1 mile drag race to 150MPH? I bet the Vette blows it away off the line but the jet obviously will accelerate much longer and faster so it should catch up.
I was a bit suprised to see 200 mph as the wheels lifted. The last 2 737's were right at 150 ish.Edit:
It was an airbus A340. I just checked my ticket.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,598
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA Yea, i'm a redneck... but you love it
Cruise-In 8-9 Veteran
aka/Trunk Monkey/Banned For Life/Corvette For Life
* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine
makes more horsepower (8,000 HP) than the first 4 rows of cars at the Daytona 500.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes
11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747
consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce
enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger.
* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the
supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a
near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic
lock at full throttle.
* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular
white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen,
dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust
gases.
* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed
during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus
the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be
shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run,
unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with
sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split
the block in half.
* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have
completed reading this sentence.
* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds,
dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH
well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8
G's.
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540
revolutions from ! light to light!
* Including the burnout, the engine must only
survive 900 revolutions under load.
* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.
* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is
paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each
run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.
0 to 100 MPH in .8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run)
0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run)
6 g-forces at the starting line (nothing accelerates faster on land)
6 negative g-forces upon deployment of twin ‘chutes at 300 MPH
An NHRA Top Fuel Dragster accelerates quicker than any other land vehicle on earth quicker than a jet fighter plane . . . quicker than the space shuttle.
The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is
4.420 seconds for the quarter-mile (2004, Doug Kalitta). The
top speed record is 337.58 MPH as measured over the last 66'
of the run (2005, Tony Schumacher).
Putting this all into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter
twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel
dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you
pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette
hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the
dragster at an honest 200 MPH. The 'tree' goes green for both of
you at that moment.
The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep
your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears
your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you.
He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just
passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had
spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road
when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
That's acceleration !
makes more horsepower (8,000 HP) than the first 4 rows of cars at the Daytona 500.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes
11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747
consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce
enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger.
* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the
supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a
near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic
lock at full throttle.
* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular
white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen,
dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust
gases.
* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed
during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus
the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be
shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run,
unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with
sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split
the block in half.
* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have
completed reading this sentence.
* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds,
dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH
well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8
G's.
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540
revolutions from ! light to light!
* Including the burnout, the engine must only
survive 900 revolutions under load.
* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.
* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is
paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each
run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.
0 to 100 MPH in .8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run)
0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run)
6 g-forces at the starting line (nothing accelerates faster on land)
6 negative g-forces upon deployment of twin ‘chutes at 300 MPH
An NHRA Top Fuel Dragster accelerates quicker than any other land vehicle on earth quicker than a jet fighter plane . . . quicker than the space shuttle.
The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is
4.420 seconds for the quarter-mile (2004, Doug Kalitta). The
top speed record is 337.58 MPH as measured over the last 66'
of the run (2005, Tony Schumacher).
Putting this all into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter
twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel
dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you
pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette
hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the
dragster at an honest 200 MPH. The 'tree' goes green for both of
you at that moment.
The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep
your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears
your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you.
He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just
passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had
spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road
when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
That's acceleration !
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 3
From: Clearwater FL
St. Jude Donor '06
The passenger jets will not accelerate like a fighter and our cars are no match for the Bugatti. The question remains: How long before a Vette would be blown off the runway. Those passenger jets seem to accelerate harder as they go faster too. I don't think they hammer the throttles to full right from the start. I'd bet it is somewhere arounr 80-100mph.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
The passenger jets will not accelerate like a fighter and our cars are no match for the Bugatti. The question remains: How long before a Vette would be blown off the runway. Those passenger jets seem to accelerate harder as they go faster too. I don't think they hammer the throttles to full right from the start. I'd bet it is somewhere arounr 80-100mph.
the pilots often throttle up incrementally. My guess is from a standing start against a 757, a stock LT1 looses at around 100 mph. But that really is guessing.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 1
From: fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history
No seat-of-the pants guessing, I have detailed performance charts on both Corvettes and Boeings. A stock LT-1 will easily take a 737 in a 1/4 mile.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 2
From: Prather, California -1990 ZR-1 White/Flame Red- -SOLD!!-
Demonic85, that video you posted was f'ing awesome man!!! I got an adrenalin rush just watching that, imagine being in that jet pullin a 90 and goin straight up, I bet nothing comes close.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
From: Sumter South Carolina
I fly the F-16 and drive a Corvette, so I hope some of my experience helps answer this question. First, jets (fighters and heavies alike) are not created for acceleration on land. So this comparison is pretty much like comparing apples to oranges. However, there is a race that happens every year at the Luke Air Force Base air show called Viper versus Viper. The first race is a clean F-16 (ie no bombs, missiles or external tanks --all which add drag and weight) against a stock new Dodge Viper. The F-16 is not allowed to use afterburner and it is usually a close race with the Dodge just edging out the F-16. The next race is the F-16, with afterburner, against a race-ready 600hp Viper. This one usually ends up with the Dodge again just beating the F-16. However, when the F-16 becomes airborne and gear in the well, it proceeds to go verticle.
The principles of acceleration with a jet engine is, the faster you go, the faster you accelerate. Jet engines love to have plenty of air down the intake, which is the suck-bang-blow (get your mind out of the gutter) idea. So, an F-16 from a dead stop has to overcome the inertia of a 26,000lb jet with 28,000lbs of thrust (full AB), plus it doesn't have the added benefit of air being forced down the intake at 400kts (around 460mph at sea level). Even with that amount of thrust, it takes a few seconds for the jet to really start to pick up. This is where the car (insert Corvette) will get a decent jump on the jet. However, a clean F-16 is going to quickly pass a stock corvette (all street production models). Usually on a normal day, with full AB in a clean jet I'm off the ground in about 1500ft at 150-ish kts and by the time I'm at the end of the runway (10,000ft) I'm doing 400+kts.
The seat of the pants push of the F-16 is a lot more than the Corvette, but for head-snapping forces off the line, the Corvette wins hands down. The F-16 has a constant push in the seat and keeps you there.
So, both are different and exciting and that's why I love driving my Corvette and flying the F-16!
The principles of acceleration with a jet engine is, the faster you go, the faster you accelerate. Jet engines love to have plenty of air down the intake, which is the suck-bang-blow (get your mind out of the gutter) idea. So, an F-16 from a dead stop has to overcome the inertia of a 26,000lb jet with 28,000lbs of thrust (full AB), plus it doesn't have the added benefit of air being forced down the intake at 400kts (around 460mph at sea level). Even with that amount of thrust, it takes a few seconds for the jet to really start to pick up. This is where the car (insert Corvette) will get a decent jump on the jet. However, a clean F-16 is going to quickly pass a stock corvette (all street production models). Usually on a normal day, with full AB in a clean jet I'm off the ground in about 1500ft at 150-ish kts and by the time I'm at the end of the runway (10,000ft) I'm doing 400+kts.
The seat of the pants push of the F-16 is a lot more than the Corvette, but for head-snapping forces off the line, the Corvette wins hands down. The F-16 has a constant push in the seat and keeps you there.
So, both are different and exciting and that's why I love driving my Corvette and flying the F-16!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 921
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine
makes more horsepower (8,000 HP) than the first 4 rows of cars at the Daytona 500.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes
11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747
consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce
enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger.
* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the
supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a
near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic
lock at full throttle.
* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular
white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen,
dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust
gases.
* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed
during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus
the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be
shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run,
unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with
sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split
the block in half.
* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have
completed reading this sentence.
* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds,
dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH
well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8
G's.
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540
revolutions from ! light to light!
* Including the burnout, the engine must only
survive 900 revolutions under load.
* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.
* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is
paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each
run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.
0 to 100 MPH in .8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run)
0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run)
6 g-forces at the starting line (nothing accelerates faster on land)
6 negative g-forces upon deployment of twin ‘chutes at 300 MPH
An NHRA Top Fuel Dragster accelerates quicker than any other land vehicle on earth quicker than a jet fighter plane . . . quicker than the space shuttle.
The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is
4.420 seconds for the quarter-mile (2004, Doug Kalitta). The
top speed record is 337.58 MPH as measured over the last 66'
of the run (2005, Tony Schumacher).
Putting this all into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter
twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel
dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you
pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette
hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the
dragster at an honest 200 MPH. The 'tree' goes green for both of
you at that moment.
The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep
your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears
your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you.
He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just
passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had
spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road
when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
That's acceleration !
makes more horsepower (8,000 HP) than the first 4 rows of cars at the Daytona 500.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes
11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747
consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce
enough power to merely drive the dragster's supercharger.
* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the
supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a
near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic
lock at full throttle.
* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for
nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular
white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen,
dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust
gases.
* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed
during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus
the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be
shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run,
unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with
sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split
the block in half.
* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have
completed reading this sentence.
* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds,
dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 G's. In order to reach 200 MPH
well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8
G's.
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540
revolutions from ! light to light!
* Including the burnout, the engine must only
survive 900 revolutions under load.
* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.
* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is
paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each
run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.
0 to 100 MPH in .8 seconds (the first 60 feet of the run)
0 to 200 MPH in 2.2 seconds (the first 350 feet of the run)
6 g-forces at the starting line (nothing accelerates faster on land)
6 negative g-forces upon deployment of twin ‘chutes at 300 MPH
An NHRA Top Fuel Dragster accelerates quicker than any other land vehicle on earth quicker than a jet fighter plane . . . quicker than the space shuttle.
The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is
4.420 seconds for the quarter-mile (2004, Doug Kalitta). The
top speed record is 337.58 MPH as measured over the last 66'
of the run (2005, Tony Schumacher).
Putting this all into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter
twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel
dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you
pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette
hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the
dragster at an honest 200 MPH. The 'tree' goes green for both of
you at that moment.
The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep
your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears
your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you.
He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just
passed him. Think about it - from a standing start, the dragster had
spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road
when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
That's acceleration !
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,383
Likes: 4
I remember an old magazine "XL" in the '80s. They tested the 1984 Corvette when it came out by pitting it against a T-38 (F-5 sans fangs). They got Chuck Yeager to fly the plane and drive the car. The L83 powered C4 easily won the 1/4 mile.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
I fly the Airbus 319/320/321 series currently.
Most take offs are at a reduced power setting (saves engine wear and fuel). And, on average, they are well loaded.
In that configuration, most stock (base) vettes would easily pull to about a 100 mph, after that the tables would begin to turn.
I have flown ferry flights too, these are the funnest as there are no passengers and cargo, and the plane is some 50,000 lbs lighter. A TOGA (full power) take off in this configuration is much faster. In this configuration, I'd probably match the acceleration of a low 13 second 1/4 vette at about 90 mph, and surpass it soon thereafter.
A big handicap of the type of planes I fly is that it can take as long as 8 or 9 seconds to get the engines spooled up before they can make serious thrust. The bottom line is that passenger jets dont' really start accelerating hard until past a 100 mph or so.
Most take offs are at a reduced power setting (saves engine wear and fuel). And, on average, they are well loaded.
In that configuration, most stock (base) vettes would easily pull to about a 100 mph, after that the tables would begin to turn.
I have flown ferry flights too, these are the funnest as there are no passengers and cargo, and the plane is some 50,000 lbs lighter. A TOGA (full power) take off in this configuration is much faster. In this configuration, I'd probably match the acceleration of a low 13 second 1/4 vette at about 90 mph, and surpass it soon thereafter.
A big handicap of the type of planes I fly is that it can take as long as 8 or 9 seconds to get the engines spooled up before they can make serious thrust. The bottom line is that passenger jets dont' really start accelerating hard until past a 100 mph or so.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
You are correct in that most takeoffs are made at less than full thrust. However that power setting is made all at once, not incrementally.
I know that you know that but your post will confuse some of our jet power experts.
I know that you know that but your post will confuse some of our jet power experts.
I fly the Airbus 319/320/321 series currently.
Most take offs are at a reduced power setting (saves engine wear and fuel). And, on average, they are well loaded.
In that configuration, most stock (base) vettes would easily pull to about a 100 mph, after that the tables would begin to turn.
I have flown ferry flights too, these are the funnest as there are no passengers and cargo, and the plane is some 50,000 lbs lighter. A TOGA (full power) take off in this configuration is much faster. In this configuration, I'd probably match the acceleration of a low 13 second 1/4 vette at about 90 mph, and surpass it soon thereafter.
A big handicap of the type of planes I fly is that it can take as long as 8 or 9 seconds to get the engines spooled up before they can make serious thrust. The bottom line is that passenger jets dont' really start accelerating hard until past a 100 mph or so.
Most take offs are at a reduced power setting (saves engine wear and fuel). And, on average, they are well loaded.
In that configuration, most stock (base) vettes would easily pull to about a 100 mph, after that the tables would begin to turn.
I have flown ferry flights too, these are the funnest as there are no passengers and cargo, and the plane is some 50,000 lbs lighter. A TOGA (full power) take off in this configuration is much faster. In this configuration, I'd probably match the acceleration of a low 13 second 1/4 vette at about 90 mph, and surpass it soon thereafter.
A big handicap of the type of planes I fly is that it can take as long as 8 or 9 seconds to get the engines spooled up before they can make serious thrust. The bottom line is that passenger jets dont' really start accelerating hard until past a 100 mph or so.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
We don't slam the throttles open, we bring them to 1.05 epr first (takes a few seconds), then we set them at either "FLEX" (reduced) detent, or TOGA detent. The FADEC's control them at that point.