OK Guys, need some serious help!!
04-01-2008, 07:04 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by jsup
OK, I respect your opinion so I will lay out the facts as I see them and please tell me where I'm wrong.
1. THe car ran fine
2. I replaced the injectors only
3. The car makes this wrapping noise. Only ran it in 5 second spurts.
4. The timing was 6* dead on before the switch, and I did not move the dist
5. Double, triple, quadruple checked the sparkplug wires in both position on the cap and firing order
6. New chip programming
7. Spoke to engine builder. In the old days when they used to build engines and let them sit a week or so before starting them, they would clatter like all hell, this was a result of the oil running off the cyl walls.
8. It is possible that the tuning on the chip was not altered in closed loop for the larger injectors spilling all kinds of liquid gas into the cyl that could not atomize becuase lack of engine heat. It's a theory.
9. With the condition given in 8, the gas would not burn and likely to clean the oil off the walls of the cyl wall.
I just have not heard any other feasible, credible opinion put forward.
1. THe car ran fine
2. I replaced the injectors only
3. The car makes this wrapping noise. Only ran it in 5 second spurts.
4. The timing was 6* dead on before the switch, and I did not move the dist
5. Double, triple, quadruple checked the sparkplug wires in both position on the cap and firing order
6. New chip programming
7. Spoke to engine builder. In the old days when they used to build engines and let them sit a week or so before starting them, they would clatter like all hell, this was a result of the oil running off the cyl walls.
8. It is possible that the tuning on the chip was not altered in closed loop for the larger injectors spilling all kinds of liquid gas into the cyl that could not atomize becuase lack of engine heat. It's a theory.
9. With the condition given in 8, the gas would not burn and likely to clean the oil off the walls of the cyl wall.
I just have not heard any other feasible, credible opinion put forward.
Could you have leaned on and bent one of the alternator fan fins to where it is hitting on something? Is the noise internal? Or external? Where does your stethoscope testing tell you where it is coming from?
RACE ON!!!
04-01-2008, 07:22 PM
#42
Race Director
My post #32 was bad?
04-01-2008, 07:25 PM
#43
Former Vendor
Its pretty hard to diagnose a sound you can't hear, but if your car was tuned to run on 22lb. injectors and you went 38s without retuning, changing the injector constant, its going to run SUPER rich. I would say don't run it anymore with those injectors until you get it retuned.
Paul
Paul
04-01-2008, 07:34 PM
#44
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Based on what you heard, does the explanation seem realistic?
Plus I think John said that the new injectors are a little shorter than the OEMs, so they would be a little loose if anything.
Is the noise internal? Or external?
Plus I could NOT isolate the sound location to either "side" of the engine??
BTW, the serp belt was removed so the only thing rotating up front was the damper.
04-01-2008, 07:48 PM
#45
I did not read every post, so forgive me if I am repeating.
As I mentioned on the other site I cannot name
Did you hook up a timing light to see if the noise was in sync with the light? It will guide you towards confirming or denying an internal noise.
Did you remove your drive belt and run the engine with it off? That will isolate it to the front of the motor, or not.
Have you disconnected the 3 torque converter bolts, and slid the converter toward the rear bumper to disengage it from the crank?
Doing so will confirm or deny the noise is immediately behind the flexplate.
As I mentioned on the other site I cannot name
Did you hook up a timing light to see if the noise was in sync with the light? It will guide you towards confirming or denying an internal noise.
Did you remove your drive belt and run the engine with it off? That will isolate it to the front of the motor, or not.
Have you disconnected the 3 torque converter bolts, and slid the converter toward the rear bumper to disengage it from the crank?
Doing so will confirm or deny the noise is immediately behind the flexplate.
04-01-2008, 08:11 PM
#46
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I did not read every post, so forgive me if I am repeating.
As I mentioned on the other site I cannot name
Did you hook up a timing light to see if the noise was in sync with the light? It will guide you towards confirming or denying an internal noise.
Did you remove your drive belt and run the engine with it off? That will isolate it to the front of the motor, or not.
Have you disconnected the 3 torque converter bolts, and slid the converter toward the rear bumper to disengage it from the crank?
Doing so will confirm or deny the noise is immediately behind the flexplate.
As I mentioned on the other site I cannot name
Did you hook up a timing light to see if the noise was in sync with the light? It will guide you towards confirming or denying an internal noise.
Did you remove your drive belt and run the engine with it off? That will isolate it to the front of the motor, or not.
Have you disconnected the 3 torque converter bolts, and slid the converter toward the rear bumper to disengage it from the crank?
Doing so will confirm or deny the noise is immediately behind the flexplate.
I'll try to get a video of it this week, I do have to earn a living ya know, and post it for more opinions...
This noise is LOUD and other than tearing into the engine, I see no diagnostic,logical procedure.
the car was 100% mechanically sound BEFORE the injector change and nothing changed but the injectors.
04-01-2008, 08:13 PM
#47
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Its pretty hard to diagnose a sound you can't hear, but if your car was tuned to run on 22lb. injectors and you went 38s without retuning, changing the injector constant, its going to run SUPER rich. I would say don't run it anymore with those injectors until you get it retuned.
Paul
Paul
Like I said above, I will try to get a video this week. It is a VERY LOUD clacking type sound is the only way I can describe it.
04-01-2008, 08:14 PM
#48
Peter, I did the timing light thing, yes it's in sync with the engine.
I'll try to get a video of it this week, I do have to earn a living ya know, and post it for more opinions...
This noise is LOUD and other than tearing into the engine, I see no diagnostic,logical procedure.
the car was 100% mechanically sound BEFORE the injector change and nothing changed but the injectors.
I'll try to get a video of it this week, I do have to earn a living ya know, and post it for more opinions...
This noise is LOUD and other than tearing into the engine, I see no diagnostic,logical procedure.
the car was 100% mechanically sound BEFORE the injector change and nothing changed but the injectors.
That is one diagnostic procedure that works well most of the time without disassembly.
04-01-2008, 08:17 PM
#49
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If the problem were due to your larger injectors "clicking" I think I'd feel that click, as I do with my stock injectors.
Plus I think John said that the new injectors are a little shorter than the OEMs, so they would be a little loose if anything.
I couldn't be sure though I could not "feel" any vibration when putting a finger on a head, the intake base or the SR top???
Plus I could NOT isolate the sound location to either "side" of the engine??
BTW, the serp belt was removed so the only thing rotating up front was the damper.
Plus I think John said that the new injectors are a little shorter than the OEMs, so they would be a little loose if anything.
I couldn't be sure though I could not "feel" any vibration when putting a finger on a head, the intake base or the SR top???
Plus I could NOT isolate the sound location to either "side" of the engine??
BTW, the serp belt was removed so the only thing rotating up front was the damper.
That's the confusing part where TF is it coming from? The shorter injectors will not cause a problem, I checked on that.
I am getting a new set of injectors and I still have to talk to Alvin about the tune, perhaps he forgot to re tune the closed loop?
This is really a learning experience, which I was hoping for, I got what I wished for
04-01-2008, 08:17 PM
#50
Peter, I did the timing light thing, yes it's in sync with the engine.
I'll try to get a video of it this week, I do have to earn a living ya know, and post it for more opinions...
This noise is LOUD and other than tearing into the engine, I see no diagnostic,logical procedure.
the car was 100% mechanically sound BEFORE the injector change and nothing changed but the injectors.
I'll try to get a video of it this week, I do have to earn a living ya know, and post it for more opinions...
This noise is LOUD and other than tearing into the engine, I see no diagnostic,logical procedure.
the car was 100% mechanically sound BEFORE the injector change and nothing changed but the injectors.
04-01-2008, 08:19 PM
#51
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No nerve struck Peter, I was just joking around and poking fun at myself for spending time on the car and not at work.......I work out of the house so it's tough with the car sitting 20 feet away......
04-01-2008, 08:23 PM
#52
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With the car off, remove #1 plug wire from the plug and start the engine. If the noise stays the same, shut off motor and reattach the wire. Then pick a different wire and repeat the process. If the noise quietes up on a certain cylinder, you have found the hurt hole.
That is one diagnostic procedure that works well most of the time without disassembly.
That is one diagnostic procedure that works well most of the time without disassembly.
I'll try that next, however, I don't believe it's isolated to one cyl.
I don't think it's mechanical as it didn't make any noise when turned over with teh starter.
The torque converter was never removed, and there was no noise prior to the injector swap. I find it hard to believe that after only pulling the plenum and swapping the injectors that something mechanically would have gone wrong.
Ahh, the fun of this hobby...
04-01-2008, 09:12 PM
#53
Safety Car
John,
When you started the engine, did you let it run long enough for the oil pressure to come up? What does the oil pressure gauge say? Did it appear to be the same as before, or was it different? I have heard that later L98 engines like ours can have piston slap, could that be it?
Randy
When you started the engine, did you let it run long enough for the oil pressure to come up? What does the oil pressure gauge say? Did it appear to be the same as before, or was it different? I have heard that later L98 engines like ours can have piston slap, could that be it?
Randy
04-01-2008, 09:16 PM
#54
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John,
When you started the engine, did you let it run long enough for the oil pressure to come up? What does the oil pressure gauge say? Did it appear to be the same as before, or was it different? I have heard that later L98 engines like ours can have piston slap, could that be it?
Randy
When you started the engine, did you let it run long enough for the oil pressure to come up? What does the oil pressure gauge say? Did it appear to be the same as before, or was it different? I have heard that later L98 engines like ours can have piston slap, could that be it?
Randy
This is LOUD. I have heard piston slap, this is much much louder.
Yes, the OP is as usual.
04-01-2008, 09:22 PM
#55
Safety Car
With the car off, remove #1 plug wire from the plug and start the engine. If the noise stays the same, shut off motor and reattach the wire. Then pick a different wire and repeat the process. If the noise quietes up on a certain cylinder, you have found the hurt hole.
That is one diagnostic procedure that works well most of the time without disassembly.
That is one diagnostic procedure that works well most of the time without disassembly.
-- Joe
04-01-2008, 09:24 PM
#56
Safety Car
-- Joe
04-01-2008, 09:26 PM
#57
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I am researching during this week, so I have a list of things to do on Sat.
I'm not ignoring you guys, only so much I can do in a day. I have two little kids with BBall practice, dance, etc....etc....etc....
04-01-2008, 09:29 PM
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What's a skip. Tomorrow I'll take five minutes and record the sound.
04-01-2008, 09:46 PM
#59
Safety Car
Skip is uneven firing, shaking. literally a 'skip'. If its running smooth, steady idle, and just making noise something has play (rod bearing) or is hitting something (alt fin as suggested, flexplate, etc).
I'd like to hear the sound if you can record it.
-- Joe
I'd like to hear the sound if you can record it.
-- Joe
04-01-2008, 10:00 PM
#60
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The idle seems to be nice and smooth.
I will record the noise tomorrow, but I'm not so sure how to post it. I can record it and make an AVI and go from there.
So far this weekend will go as follows:
1. Start the car and pull one wire off at a time and see what happens.
2. Take out all the plugs and do a compression test
3. If that checks out OK swap the injectors.
Anyone have anything else?