Cheap intercooling. This should be plug and play over the valve cover on curved discharge Powerdyne or Procharger, maybe even vortech.

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/p...s/intercooler/


-- Joe

 

Nice find Joe,

Be sure to let us know the pressure drop once you can test it. I read that ATI used to quote a 3 psi drop for their air to air intercoolers, so their head units were pullied to produce an extra 3 lbs.

A 3 psi pressure drop could really cripple a 6 lb. Powerdyne, so I hope its not that bad. Since its much smaller than a typical air to air intercooler, hopefully it will be much better in this regard.

 

I think you would need the upgraded impeller to make it worthwhile. If my math serves me right, the 928 motorsports impeller should be capable of about 10-12psi at around 70% efficiency. Figure with a air-to-water intercooler, we'll see about a 2-3psi pressure drop and about a 100f temperature decrease. (nearly 100% efficiency). Better if ice water can be used.

Coupled with some MAT vs spark advance tables, it should be pretty straight forward to build a calibration that runs fine on the street, and even better at the track with ice water.

Vortech's air to water intercooler:

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...p=19&cat_key=3

-- Joe

 

Check this out regarding pressure drop:

"s Water to Air for me?

A Water to Air Intercooler setup is similar in principle to a traditional air to air setup, except that there is water passing through the core of the intercooler instead of air which is responsible for drawing the heat out of the intake air. There are many benefits of using a water to air intercooler setup.

Water to air means incredibly low pressure drop.

Pressure drop on a standard water to air intercooler core is only .05 PSI. That's not a typo, pressure drop on a water to air intercooler setup is up to 20 times less than a comparably performing air to air setup.

Water to air means better engine cooling.

Many people who try to road race with a front mount intercooler have overheating problems because the air going to the radiator has to pass through the hot intercooler first. With a water to air setup, you have far more flexible options. The core will probably be in the engine bay, and the radiator can be mounted in the trunk, under the car, or in some applications a radiator is not even needed.

Water to air means better throttle response.

Instead of the horrible mess of pipes that is normally associated with an air to air intercooler, a water to air intercooler can be mounted in the engine bay, directly between the turbo outlet and the throttle body. A shorter intake route with fewer bends is beneficial in every way.

Water to air means no heat soak.

A water to air intercooler setup circulates water through the core even when the car is not moving. This is especially useful during drag racing, when the core temperature raises significantly during a pass, and then the car sits still for several minutes waiting for the next pass.

Water to air means extreme drag racing advantage.

You can add ice to your reservoir, if so equipped, which will drop your intake temperature BELOW ambient. Of course, the ice melts, which is why this is so good for drag racing.

Water to air means Mid Engine No Problem.

Every modified mid or rear engine turbo vehicle should have a water to air intercooler setup. It is not practical to have a front mounted air to air setup in these applications, but you can have a water to air intercooler in the back of the vehicle and the radiator in the front, providing greater cooling than an air to air setup.

Bugatti Veyron.

The Bugatti Veyron is equipped with a water to air intercooler. 1,001 horsepower, 250 MPH cars might be somewhat common at the drag strip, but that's not what the Veyron is about. The Veyron is an all-around car, not just a top-speed monster. That's the reason it is the most expensive car in the world and they still lose money on every one. Bugatti chose a water to air intercooler for this car because it is absolutely the best system available. The Ford GT and Ariel Atom also use water to air, for a more real-world example.

Why does it work?

Water does a better job of drawing the heat out of metal than air. Look at engine cooling - how many air-cooled engines are there? Not many, because water does a much more effective job at cooling. So much more, in fact, that it is impossible to engineer a solution for a modern high performance engine that is air cooled.

How does it work?

Now that you have a place to buy all of the components, water to air intercooler setups are easier to implement than air to air. The reason it is easier is because you have extreme flexibility as to where to mount all of the components. Mount the core in the engine bay. The air inlet/outlet should, of course, be piped in between your turbo and throttle body. The water inlet should come from the pump, and the outlet should lead to the radiator, then the reservoir (if equipped)."

 

I'd love to do one of those (a bigger version though) if I could find a way to make it fit and flow enough air for my ysi.

 

ysi is what 1200cfm? 20psi?

I wanted to upgrade to a ysi when I had the s-trim on the firechicken, but could never fork the $2500 for the head unit. Thats a lot of dough.

These IC's support '1000' hp on paper, but thats chinese mfg math, so multiply that by .55 and thats probably the real number. I'd think you'd need a bigger core, as suggested for the ysi.

-- Joe

 

Totally... I'm somewhat suspicious of their hp #'s. i called bell intercoolers and they said that I wanted about 75 square inches of hot side surface area. They ysi flows about 1500 cfm although I'm using about 1200 or so....

For smaller s and t trim systems that you're spinning hard, an intercooler like this may be the ticket.

 

Agreed. Here is a snipit from Bell's website:


Single Inlet/Single Outlet
When compared to an Air/Air intercooler, a Liquid/Air system can handle more heat transfer and, therefore, more power for a given core size. This is due to the use of liquid as the charge cooling medium, which provides better heat transfer properties than air. The trade off for this increase in cooling capacity is the need for additional components not required with an Air/Air system (coolant reservoir, pump and heat exchanger). Liquid/Air systems are well suited for applications where there may not be direct access to a cooling air stream, for instance in a rear or mid engine vehicle. Liquid/Air systems are also able to increase intercooler efficiencies beyond 100% through the use of chilled or ice water as a cooling medium.

Core Dimensions: 12 x 6 x 6
Horsepower Rating: 400 hp (max) (for core shown)


So, for about the same core size (and shape based on picture)
we go from 1,000 hp to 400 hp..

IMO, I think it's probably good for around 500 to 550hp. Not good for you, but probably fine for me, tb, and some of the other guys with smaller blowers. (<10psi).

Bell also says max 1psi drop over the air to water ICs with 10psi boost. I think if I end up upgrading my impeller on the powerdyne, and it can push 10psi w/out overspinning I'll go with one of these cheap IC's.

I checked out this website too: http://www.frozenboost.com/
who sells the ebay intercoolers, along with accessories. They have a $299 setup w/ everything needed, and you can upgrade to the bosch pump (mustang cobra) for $69 more.

-- Joe

 

So are those the same as the intercoolers on ebay?

They mention that the pressure drop at the rated cfm is super low. I bet you could stretch this unit to work on a powerdyne or s trim car. I found it interesting how they mention that there is a difference between the air to air and air to water cores(which makes sense).

I like their type 5 one. I could fit that thing in between the hood mounting points on the dog house. I'd only have to trim a bit. It's almost similar in size to the spearco 2-231 except the whole package is half the price of the spearco intercooler.

Their packages seem pretty well prices. Give it a try and let us know how it works. Run some tests!

Here's a link for liquid to air intercoolers of similar dimensions:

http://www.racetep.com/atoliq.html

They're high dollar cores so I'm not sure how much difference there is. Maybe someone will chime in like BTF who is a garrett dealer.

 

What I found interesting was a quote on Bell's website that said something along the lines of "we've tested cores from numerous manufacturers and have not found a difference in cooling capacity between them".. Check it out.. Almost makes ya feel that paying big money for a name means nothing.

I'll try it out eventually. I wanna get a baseline of how the car is with the stock powerdyne, then maybe try the upgraded impeller with the intercooler.

-- Joe

 

www.extremeintercoolers.com

JR Parrot owns this facility and is extremely competitive on A2A and A2W ICs. He has built multiple ICs for me for my cars and for other cars that I built. Even one for a 3 lobe Mazda rotary in an airplace (cool project). That is his '90 300ZX street car with the SBC and T88.

I just realized how many of my custom set-ups are displayed on his website.
http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/customs.html
The water to air (1st one) for another car, the crossflow custom (2nd) was for the rotary airplane, and the complete custom (4th one) is for my '87. The 4th one completely wraps around the "suitcase" in a C4, with 3.5" inlet, 4" outlet and 5.5" thick core. The core dimensions exactly match the factory radiator core.

I have a nice A2W that is good for 2500CFM at <1 psi pressure drop. I just have not gotten around to installing on the car. 4" inlet and outlet, w/ 1" NPT wetside fittings.
Aaron

 

Here is Vortechs install diagram. Is this the routing you would do?

I'd think, that you would want the HOT return water from the IC to pass through the heat exchanger first, before returning to the tank. Especially if your adding ice to your storage tank.

Why do you think it would be beneficial to run the hot return direct to the tank, and have the feed pass through the heat exchanger before the intercooler?

-- Joe

 

I'd say that looks retarded if you ever plan on running ice water in the tank at the track....