94 LT1 automatic. New starter. Good battery. No solenoid click when I turn the key.
Jumped the starter relay under the dash and it started perfectly.
Replaced relay.
Good ignition fuses under hood.
Checked the transmission nuetral safety switch. No problems there.
No power to the #10 or #9 fuse.
Still no start nor any click of the solenoid after installing a new relay.
Where could I be losing power to the #9 and #10 fuses? Is there a fuible link I could have burned?
Any advice is appreciated.

 

I bet its VATS. have your key checked.

 

Vhat is zis VATS?
I checked the resistance on the key and it was less less than 50 ohms. That's what the service manual diagnostics suggested, but not sure what it means.

 

Pocket lint, other fuzzies, etc, can change impedance in resistor/measurer...

Might be some nasties in the lock cylinder too.

 

Any suggestions on how to clean the lock cylinder out?
What will I need to take to the dealer, other than the old key, to get a new key made?
Hopefully not the car, since it won't start!

 

I don't believe it's the key, or a dirty cylinder (although possible).

I think you gotta' follow the circuit that you jumped (since the jump worked). It might call for pullin' the column bezel, etc., to follow the circuit from the relay to the lock cylinder, and then back to the relay, and test in different spots.

The dealer will do the same thing, and take a shiny cent to do it too.

Does the relay jump without the key in the 'ON' position?

 

Key must be in the "Start" (cylinder turned forward) position with relay jumped for car to start.

 

Likely it's the VATS--do you have more than one key---the resistance of the key would vary from car to car---however the resistance of the keys for the same car should be about the same--if it doesn't start with any of your keys--then it is still likely a problem with the VATS---be it a VATS component or wiring--if you're up to it --it's time for the wiring diagram of VATS.

 

Just checked the purple circuit between the AT safety switch and the Crank fuse #10. Complete circuit.
Checked the yellow circuit between the AT safety switch and the starter relay. Complete circuit.
I'm beginning to believe the problem lies in the key or the cylinder. I only have one key and never had a new one made. I will be doing that tomorrow.

 

From a different thread:
Checked key pellet resistance - 897 ohms.
Checked resistance at the connector - 897 ohms.
Installed a resistor in the VATS 2 pin connector.
Still no start.
Guess it's not the key.

 

I have been through every diagnostic test my service manual calls for and no luck.
I can find no reference in my hundreds of pages of service manual to "VATS".
I am left with the assumption that, since everything else checks out, it must be my CCM. Not sure why the car will start with the relay jumped if the CCM is bad, but that is the only other logical conclusion I can make.
Any alternative suggestions are appreciated.
I just wanna go outside and break something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 straight days of checking and testing and rechecking...........

 

VATS-- I believe-- is a abbreviated term for Vehicle Anti Theft System you're likely seeing this in the wiring diagram as "Theft deterrent relay" when the CCM sees the correct amount of resistance through the 2 wires which go to the ign. locking cylinder and the pellet (resistor) in the key you have inserted--the CCM is the control which grounds the anti theft relay creating a magnetic field which pulls a set of points closed and sends voltage to the starter solenoid and " VOILA" the engine cranks HOWEVER I did not read your first post as closely as I should have--you stated you did not have voltage on fuse #9 & #10 this needs to be checked for voltage ONLY in the crank position ---Sooooo have someone hold the key in the crank position --if you at this time have voltage on fuse#10--then i would check the #5 terminal of the anti theft relay if you have voltage there then it is very-very likely that the CCM is BAD--if this is true as a temporary/permanent fix you should be able to remove the anti theft relay and with a wire or paper clip (temporary) jump/connect terminals #1 & #4 at the block where the relay plugs in and it should start---HOWEVER BE FOREWARNED if this is a manual tranny it will start in any gear WITHOUT PUSHING THE CLUTCH PEDAL DOWN (runaway vehicle!!!) and if it's a automatic it will start and go into gear in reverse or any drive position although this is less of a problem on a automatic because of the steering column /gear shifter interlock system--ie the car needs to be in park to get the key in or out---hope this helps 'cause I'm a one finger typist and it's tired!! Good Luck

 

I have begun disassembling the entire dash to remove or at least access the CCM.
Where is the theft relay located? Books are out in the garage!
Thanks for your replies.

 

I own a '96--- '94 & '96 both use first generation VATS-- they should both be the same---that said the theft relay should be behind the instrument cluster and kinda above and slightly to the left of the steering column---there should be 3 relays in a group above the column and to the columns left---the theft relay should be the one furthest to the right in this group of 3 relays it should have 2 yellow wires running to it --1 purple wire and 1 yellow & black wire if you find this I think you're where you need to be. Luck Again

 

My service manual shows that bank to include:
Turn Flasher
Cruise Control Relay
Disable Bus Relay
Starter Relay

However, I found the manual to be wrong on the location of the Starter Relay. If the "Theft Relay" has two yellow wires, my manual is wrong again.
In my opinion, I paid a nice chunk of change for hundreds of pages of poorly organized misinformation. This is not the first time I have found the service manual to be a poor source of info.
I will try your fix tomorrow. I have been afraid of yellow wires on this car ever since I read the SIR warning on a yellow wire. Don't want to add "airbag repair" to my extensive list of automotive honey-do's.
If I jump this relay, will my keyless entry still work? Guess I'll find out. I don't have key holes on my doors.

 

It ain't a vats fault, I don't believe.

Vats disablement goes away after 8 minutes. Or when battery is disconnected and re-connected.

That's how my '87 worked.

 

I am so lost right now!

 

Have you tried after 8 minutes (or 10 - 12)?

 

Yes, I have tried the wait-and-see thing several times. If the VATS will reset itself, my problem must not be with the VATS.
I can still start the car by jumping the starter relay. I have done that a few times in the last few days just to make me feel good by hearing it start!!

 

I believe what you have from left to right while sitting in the seat is a turn flasher--- cruise control relay----delayed accessory/disable relay AND what you are calling starter relay--is in fact the anti theft relay-I tried to explain as best as I could in my previous post -- if what your manual calls a starter relay has the wire colors from previous post then connect #1 terminal and #4 terminal in the connector which the relay plugs into this should be a yellow wire and the other should be a purple wire and yes --there will be 2 yellow wires --- either the relay itself or the connector it plugs into should be numbered-- they will likely be very small numbers--jump #1 and #4 and see what happens---and by the way I've never seen a '87 model with a pellet/resistor in the key that is a integral part of the VATS that I am talking about ---however your '94 does have VATS and to answer your question no it will not affect your keyless entry---VATS does not lock doors or set off alarms---it only allows or prevents the starter from turning once someone is inside the car