Doug Rippie has replacement camper brackets and control arm brackets. They are supposed to relocate mounting points for increased performance.

Anyone have these or comments about them?

go to: http://www.dougrippie.com/
and click on components/suspension

Eric

 

I run the trailing arm brackets. I can not give you a definative answer as to their benefit though.

 

They reduce the negative camber gain the SLA provides in turns and during jounce/squat. IMO, they are for drag racing, not handling. I want as much dynamic camber gain I can get.

 

Last time I spoke to DRM about them they said they are more for road racing than for Drag racing. When I was buying my headers from them last winter I was going to buy them and they talked me out of them. He said I would prolly not notice anything putting them on since I mainly Drag race.

 

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Since when does Doug Rippie make performance goodies for drag racing?? His brackets were designed with thousands of hours of track testing (road racing tracks that is..) and work beautifully. My car with just the brackets and bushing changes handled so much better there just wasn't any comparison.

You'll need to get the rear knuckles done by them as well to realize the full benefit of the camber brackets. They tweak the ears in a press, moving the rear toe points a little bit as well. Honestly, the entire setup is good for a few tenths extra g's in the grip department. I have used the G-analyst on my car while I did all the suspension mods and saw definite improvement.

They are "PROVEN" technology, used by many professional racers in SCCA in both the amateur and professional ranks.

Sorry Rick, I couldn't disagree with you more...


[Modified by Joe90, 8:09 PM 12/19/2001]

 

Joe,
Don't forget the '96 knuckles are already "tweaked" by GM. Saves a little money for us 96 owners. Group I legal, too... Ted
96 CE LT4 Z51
(Still a member of LCC)


[Modified by LT4CEZ51, 8:16 PM 12/19/2001]

 

they didn't do much for me drag racing. The theory of the camber brackets makes sense to me...keeping my slicks square on the ground. The trailing arm brackets would make sense also, if it were a true 4 link setup, but it's not. I've got them both on my car and can't say that they helped at all.

As for road racing, the trailing arm brackets might be benefical during braking, keeping the rear down and i won't even try to debate the value of the camber brackets....let the road racers comment on that.


[Modified by ralph, 9:00 PM 12/19/2001]

 

If you've had you're rear suspension apart, you'll notice that after removing the trailing arms that the bracket for them is a flimsy piece of metal. I would hope that in addition to a more strategic mounting location for more aligment offsets that the new bracket is made out of a much thicker material.

 

I don't think the trailing arms take much of a load, really... kinda like upper control arms... there is no physical load on them, so the metal thickness is not all that important... there is side load, but that is minor, really. most of the suspension load is at the spring, tie rods and sway bars.

I know this sounds odd, but my old Prelude's upper control arms had little or no load on them... remember, the shocks supported the weight and took the load... I replaced the upper control arm bushings on the lude, and did'nt need any special tools. there was absolutly no load against them.... nothing. simply a locator link. I am sure there was SOME loading, but not that much compared to the mounting point for the shocks...

the trailing arm brackets simply keep the uprights straight.

 

I drag race very often and noticed a more even tire wear after installing the DRM camber brackets. Before I was using the DRM brackets I'd see more inside edge wear than I liked. Now the wear is even all the way across and the car seems more consistent off the line, just my .02, Dave :flag Remember, you'll need a fresh alignment after installing these!


[Modified by new92racer, 12:11 AM 12/20/2001]

 

I had a similar experience when I replaced my trailing arm and control arm bushings with polyurethane bushings, installed the DRM camber and trailing arm brackets, and had a four wheel alignment done quite some time ago (with different specs). I felt a good improvement in that the car was much less tail happy and more predictable. I really don't know if it was all the changes together, some of them or one in particular though... Although the end result was that I was very happy with the mods.

I trust the guys at DRM and their reputation. Also, if they don't think you need something they will tell you instead of just selling it to you. Get some opinions here but if you aren't sure, call or e-mail them and I'm sure they'll answer any questions you might have about the brackets without pushing you to buy them.

HTH

 

Joe '90,

I think Red 90 (above) hit the nail on the head. You changed two things and have no idea which made your car feel better. I have heard similarly positive comments from owners who only changed bushings. From what I've read, DRM's primary claim is the brackets keep the tires squarer with the chassis during suspension droop & compression which defeats the SLA objective. I have seen no objective data to suggest reducing dynamic camber gain in turning situations is better for handling...as DRM claims. I've only heard enthusiastic DRM sales pitches and subjective recommendations from his loyal (in some cases, blind) followers that yes, include many "racers. To assume everything DRM sells provides benefit is totally rediculous. He sells what consumers want and nothing personal, but some of his clients are impressionable and impulsive folks. DRM's on-track testing?? With what tires and springs?? Perhaps they are beneficial with soft springs and street rubber...or with slicks & 1000 lb springs???? Who knows, but no doubt they were run on the track. I have tested the blown out Bilstein's on my car for thousands of track miles...but that does not make them good! I think teams of infinitely more qualified GM chassis design engineers optimized the C4 geometry. Do you really feel Rippie, a "jack of all trades" and the few underpaid grease monkey's he employs can "do it better" than GM? Maybe so, but I need proof. I'd like to see DRM's credentials with respect to suspension design and the tools they use to improve upon GM's multi-million dollar chassis/suspension computer modeling software, track testing and a staff of full time chassis engineers...some even PHD's. Even Rousch with his 3000+ employees does not claim to be an expert suspension design contractor.

My whole beef with these brackets is the total lack of technical justification for their existence and comparison data. Articles have been written promoting their use simply to "keep the tires square with the chassis". I need far more info than that! I don't want that "live axle" feature. I want my suspension to gain negative camber upon compression and gain positive camber upon droop. This keeps more rubber on the road when the chassis pitches in a turn.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm only convinced the brackets empty your wallet and give you a cold back while laying the garage floor. I'm open to any technical justification or useful A-B comparison data but in several years, I've seen none.

 

Just a wild guess, but does anyone think the brackets might be intended to restore the original camber rod geometry, after lowering the car significantly?

 

there are 2 seperate brackets in place here... one controls the trailing arms... which manipulates the anti-squat, the other the camber... now, I suspect you are correct - the camber brackets would help after lowering, but that is not their exclusive use...

 

If (and a VERY big if at that) the factory suspension settings were "so wonderful" and worked so well in a racing environment, why would Doug Rippie, John Lingenfelter, Chuck Mallett or any of the other tuners upgrade some of these very same components to gain a performance edge? They could do just as well with the stock components (according to your theory). You are forgetting one VERY important thing about the GM computer models and how they work...they are a compromise between comfort and performance for the street . There are those of us who really don't give a flip if the car rides a little harshly. That extra 2-3 tenths of a G in the turn means that we leave the competition behind us in the apex.:D

Perhaps I should clarify something on my previous post. I did not do both the bushing AND bracket changes at the same time. I did in fact lower the car first, drove it for over a year, then changed bushings, drove it another 6 months, then changed the brackets. Each time I had the car re-aligned to the same exact specifications. I then took it out and played with the G-Analyst and tested what the change gained or lost. I'm a firm believer in changing one thing at a time (it makes it infinitely easier to diagnose what screwed up if there is a problem.)

What the question was about is "Do the brackets work?" While I don't have a big budget like GM does to drive a vehicle for thousands of miles and test what changes they made, I did do "snap-shots" of each modification to test if it worked. They do, plain and simple. LT4CEZ51 can tell you for a fact that this car handles like it is on rails.

It doesn't do that because the brackets don't work.

Hey Ted!! Nice to see you haven't frozen your gnads off in the great white north. By the way, high temps today were 63 degrees. How was it in St. Paul?? :lol:


[Modified by Joe90, 4:54 PM 12/20/2001]