If you want fun on the street then you go for torque not RPM! Why do you think the early C4's with the L98 had long tube intake runners! TORQUE! They were relatively low RPM but could run stop light to stop light quicker due to torque! Why do you think a diesel pickup can hold it's own against most cars off the line? TORQUE!

Torque is what makes power on the street stop light to stop light! High RPM is what you do on the track!

 

A shorter stroke means the piston has to travel less distance per RPM. They do spin up faster because the expansion rate of a single cylinder has a higher turn ratio on the crank.

A stroker motor sweeps a larger distance, and has more leverage on the crank and has the potential more torque per RPM.

RPM is the output of the thermal expansion.

Less rotating mass, less friction on the walls, better piston angle for centralized loading on combustion.

I don't have an opinion on which is 'better', really. In theory lower gears gears and a higher revving motor should be more reliable and powerful, than higher gears and a low revving torque monster but building a reliable SBC that can handle revs without exploding costs too much money..

The key here is 'reliable'. A 500hp motor with a hydraulic roller camshaft, that shifts at 6,000 rpm, passes emissions, idles low, and doesn't have too much overlap at idle is a 'reliable street motor'. A 500hp solid cammed 7000 rpm 11:1 with 80+ degrees of overlap is not reliable nor a street motor. It seems most people build the later..

-- Joe

 

That is exactly the information I have been getting.

 

If you are planning to go with your current block and replace the crank/pistons/rods, I would go with a 396 as there shouldn't be much price difference from a 383 (if any) and you get that much more power. Your 180 cfm heads would even still work imo, even though they would be a bit small, the tq. should be great.

 

Thanks....that's a thought. Anyone got a D44 laying around?

 

I would go 383. But right now since you don't want to through too much more $$$ 383s are the new gen 1 350. Everybody and their brother has a 383. Its plentiful, reliable, cheap and easy. I have no idea why you would give up the cid on a motor you plan to drive on the street in a 377.

A full on drag car where you want to solid lifter cam it and rev to the moon, then it would make sense. If you aren't going over 6500, I just can't see the logic. (Neither does John Lingenfelter in his book about building SBCs )

So you only want to drive this on the street or what? Auto-x? Road Race? Drag Race?

If it is the first two (street-autocross...heck even the road race too) you are probably not gonna have to worry about the D36. Slap slicks on or sticky tires, more of a concern. For auto-x with race tires just be a little soft on your launches and you'll probably never have a problem.

 

The cheapest option of all you mentioned is the 383. But since you mentioned the 377, w/in the budget you are eluding, that will yield the most power is to use a 400 block w/a 400 crank...as a...400.

If you have or can get a 400 block (obviously required to make a DE-stroker 377), then why would you make the 400 LESS POWERFULL by spending money to DE-stroke it?? If you have access to a 400, run a 400. Part for part, dollar for dollar, it will make more power than a de-stroker 377....or a stroker 383. You'll love it!

 

Suggestion. Find someone on here that has a 383 Superam combo with heads similar to yours AND a near perfect tune in the chip. Duplicate that so when you bolt it in, it will be turn key. No idle issues or tuning suprises.

 

There is someone here who does, I think he put down some impressive numbers too.. Ill have to find that thread....

 

You will need to copy the camshaft too if you go that route.

 

Daddy used to tell me that theres NO substitute for cubic inches EXCEPT cubic bucks $$$$$$$

 

How's the saying go? no replacement for displacement?

My heads aren't big enough for anything bigger than a 383 I'm thinking....

I'm coming to the conclusion that perhaps a 383 is the easiest things to do.

 

Just put your parts on top of a 400. You'll never look back; well only to see the all the 383's trailing behind you...

 

Yes your Brodix are too small, but some AFR's 195's would do the trick.

It's coming full circle isn't it? I could do a 383, but wouldnt those heads still be a tad too small? Or no?

 

AFR 195s would have been too big for my 350, for what I wanted. What's your point?

Maybe I'll pick up a set of brodix 200s, they flow better than AFR 195s anyway and go with a 400.


OR maybe I'll just use the parts I have in the biggest suitable motor I can put it in. With minor porting my heads are good for a 383 anyway....at least according to this guy...http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2045290 but wtf does he know, he builds major engines, he doesn't post on the interweb. Do me a favor, call him for me and explain why I need AFRs....

Look at the heads on here, the guy must be an idiot..

 

Porting can get expensive. It might throw your budget out the window.

I was joking with the AFR comment, relax!

 

Minor porting, nothing major, quick cleanup....I'm talking a few hundred bucks.

I'm into this thing for $4K by the time I'm done. I'm going to get the porting and torque converter too.......

A $4K budget really means $5K, which really means $4500 by the time it's over...

so "budget" is a lost term, we all know how that goes...

 

I wouldn't worry too much about if a cylinder head is "big enough". Really, what is the right size of head? From my standpoint, everyone on here runs a head way smaller than I would but they seem to be very happy and I will never be able to convince them otherwise. With the operating range you are looking for, a 400 with your heads, cleaned up or not, will work just fine. Are you giving up something? Yeah, but in my opinion, until your heads start flowing 400 CFM+ you are giving up something.... Everyone is quick to tell you how small your heads are, but there aren't too many that want to come out and tell you how small there stuff is when compared to the real high performance stuff on the market.

 

Well chalk one up for the humble pie eaters!......I'm one of those guys that is on the other side of this discussion on which motor to build, bought the parts and starting to "Bend Metal" as we say in the Sub-Building business. i spend a TON of money getting all of the components for my 383 build, and I'm not even close to being done. I went with the AFR's because for the money, that was the best "Bang for the Buck" that I could get. I have also read about all of the various displacement blocks on here and there are advantages and disadvantages to each and everyone of them. More importantly, you have to figure out some form of budget, what you want to do with the motor, and how you going to drive the car.....reliable, fuel economy, race fuel only, what? 383's and even some 396's are very common place, but 383's are like was stated before.......the new SBC 350. Parts are everywhere, no special mix and matches needed and no extra cash out of your pocket (Normally) to do things like balancing the assembly or special provisions like block pouring, ect..ect..ect.. I have a 400 4-bolt block, heads, crank and maincaps sitting in my storage that I could have used for this build, but opted not to. I wanted a car that was well over 500hp at the crank (I have a girl in my club with a 2007 Z06 that needs a spanking) that I could get most of it to the ground without smoking the tires every time, something that was fun to drive, good fuel economy, could run different grades of gas, and would not be smoked by too many daily drivers out there. My car will be a daily driver if I so choose. I don't do garage queens, nor show cars so given that I need something that'll go for 100K miles if I so chose without having to be rebuilt every 20K, or develop leaks, or cooling issues for sacrifices that I've made somewhere else in the motor. SO, once you've figured out what all you want from this motor then you can narrow down what type, the advantages and disadvantages of each and which way to go with your build. NOW, If you have unlimited funds, then it's a no brainer pull a Jay Leno and we'll all shut up and watch you in awe! Either way good luck with whatever you do and keep us informed.

Noland

P.S. Oh yeah, just like JSUP is trying to tell you......you'll hear that you budget is only going to be about $3-4K, that's only if your doing alot of reuse and not anything additional to the car. Case in point, my rotating assy was only about $1800, so I thought I was going to get through my build REALLY cheap!........WELL, The heads were about $2500, the clutch and flywheel combo was $600, Injectors to support were $300, Waterpump $260, Lifters $300, Headers $1300, well I could do this all day and there are so many little things that are needed for a build as well. And I'm doing alot of this myself and the help of friends here on the forum. just to let you know I'm not even close to being done spending money yet. So be prepared, and the funny thing is, I'm not even CLOSE to the expensive stuff, I'm doing a budget build............There are some guys around here that have crankshafts that cost more than my entire rotating assy. There are Shaft mounted rocker arms that cost that much as well. So be prepared and also stay reasonable within your budget, cause I assure you if you wanted to build a $30K SBC, it could be done!

Noland

 

I like the last part of that; a 410 cid sprint car engine is $45,000+ new and goes about 6 weekends before many parts are replaced... But oh man she screams!