Sorry for the long read, I've tried to give as much info as possible.

I'm trying to put together a good combo for my '85 4+3, 3.07.
My goals are to have a streetable car with good power. I like a broader power band, semi high rev (~6300 or so) engine. I had a lt1 camaro before and liked the feel. I'm trying to duplicate that with the most power I can afford, while staying streetable.

I have a 14k 355 short block with forged speed pro flat tops. Stock Crank/rods .010/.010.
I have a set of pro mag ss rockers 1.52. (have heads, but not going to use those)
I have a lt1 intake converted on the way.

Here's what I have in mind:
I think I'm going to bite the bullet, and go for the AFR 195's. I've been reading for weeks, and It seems this will be the way to go and leave growing room in the future.Possible 383 down the road, I only want to buy heads once. I'm thinking of trying to get these milled a little to get to about 10.2 (@ 64cc I'd be at 9.7)Opinions on this please.

I've looked and looked at all the popular cams, and then saw a Crower Cam that looks to be exactly what I need.
Part Number: CRO-00243
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,600-6,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 225
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 225 int./230 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 286
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 289
Advertised Duration: 286 int./289 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.454 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.463 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.454 int./0.463 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112

I'm thinking about going to 1.6 rr to give a little more lift.

It looks like this cam would come in low enough to have good driveability, and spin enough to make me happy.
I've just learned about the cam specs from reading and searching for the last few weeks, so if someone thinks I'm mistaken, or know of a better cam to fit my bill, (cant afford both hr conversion and AFR heads)feel free to point this out.
I'll be converting to the '86 ecu for easier tuning.

So what are the thoughts, and anyone care to guess what sort of power I'd be at?
Also, would 24lb injectors be ok, or will I need larger?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

You're using factory rocker arms? Why in the world would you do that? Go to the RRs. Also, the hydraulic roller over a flat tappet, yeah...I'd spring for that.

IMO spend the money you have in the middle of the motor, as it's the hardest to replace.

Also, I didn't see any mention of timing gears, gaskets, or seals. Figure $250 or so for that.

How about the water pump? You're going to pull all the crap off an not replace the water pump? Or delete the AIR pump? How about head bolts, ARPs are $55. Intake bolts? Miscellaneous odds and ends, take it from me, you WILL be nickel and dimed to death.

What intake? Stock? Exhaust? Is that stock too?

I'd go back to the drawing board, look at your REAL budget.

Then I'd determine wtf you want out of this and determine if your budget is realistic.

 

I think he said he had SS Pro Mags

 

Just a couple of thoughts. I would go for compression with whatever heads you use. 10-10.5 is a good range. The 195's will knock your power down over say 180's which is what I would use for this build. If you are sold on that cam I would definitely get the 1.6 full RR's.

Oh, and 24 lb injectors should be O. K. you will want an AFPR.

 

jsup,
I have 1.52 ss pro mags now(in the post)
The short block has a cloyes double roller, I know I'll have to buy gaskets and other odds & ends.
What's you're opinion of the combo I have selected?

Badduck, How much do you think I'll lose 195 vs 180. The reason for the 195's is to have room to grow in the future.
Thanks,
Mike

 

PM Tony@AFR and ask him. He is the AFR guy.

 

I missed that paragraph. Sorry. At the end of the post you mention RRs.

My opinion is just going to start another argument.

That is a low lift cam at .4XX you can probably put $500 in your pocket with a set of Race Rites, they will support a 383 later on. I'd pocket the cash as in this combination doesn't require it.. I think you'll never reach the full potential of that intake or those heads with that cam or without an exhaust. Put some money into headers. I'd go for a hydraulic roller with more lift and less duration. That's just me. IMO the gains you realize with the heads will be lost to the cam and lack of exhaust. I believe that you will see more improvements with IKs and headers for the same money.

If you like the cam profile, and a professional has told you it's ok with that intake, that's for someone else to decide, I'm not that technical.

Flame on....if this isn't a setup...

 

Geez man, enough is enough.

 

He asked for an opinion, I gave it. The biggest improvment to that car that can be made, is the exhaust. EIther he has the budget for it or he doesn't. He has to move the dollars around somewhere.

The best build on earth is going to run like crap without doing the exhaust. It's just that simple.

SO, if he comes up with a magic $600 somewhere for the headers, point is moot.

 

My opinion is just going to start another argument.



Flame on....if this isn't a setup...[/QUOTE]

I'm not looking to argue about heads, I know you're right on not using the full potential of AFR heads now. I believe however they will be better later. With a 383, I'll run a more aggressive cam because it will still have enough low end torque. I just want to buy heads once.
I'm already figuring on heddman elite headers. I already have a free flowing cat back, and I'm going to delete the cat.

I'm not set on this cam, and I don't mind some loss of torque, or rough idle, I just want pretty good driveability, decent vacum, 112lsa or more for tuneing. If anyone can point to a better cam that will fit the bill I'm all ears.
Thanks to all for your input

 

For an impartial opinion...

 

Do you have $600 for headers laying around? That will be the single biggest improvement in both numbers and SOP on that car.

Cheapest case you can go for the Y pipe and cat eliminator. I think you will spend about $300 for that. If you do not do the exhaust, the rest will be diminished significantly.

The IKs have been demonstrated to support over 500HP. You are giving nothing up.

So IN MY WORLD if I had $X to spend, and no more, I'd go with headers and IKs and have a BETTER combination.

That's what I think.

 

I don't know what your combo will make but I know 195's will make less power than 180's because it will be a mild 355 build. It will feel like a pig.

 

It was to answer the question between AFR 180s and 195s. Let it go. It is very OLD!

 

Is my advice not sound? Should he or shouldn't he, will he or wouldn't he, get more out of a set of headers and IKs? Yes or no? Given his statement he doesn't have much money.
And yes, it is getting old I agree.

So you would sacrifice a roller cam, roller lifters, and headers for heads. How is that good advice? It's not.

 

Then why do you feel the need to stir the pot. Turn off the computer and go play with the kids. Mine are grown. You will miss the time.

 

I was just thinking that myself. I'm going to go put them to bed.

Just saying, lay out the options, let him decide. Don't jump on me for putting an option on the table, that makes sense no less.

I am NOT stirring the pot. I am offering a heart felt opinion of how he can get better performance given his budget and desires. No more, no less.

If offering an opinion is stirring the pot, that right there is my problem with this place.

 

More lift on the flat tappet cam or bite the bullet and do hydro roller conversion. Lot more options in roller cams.
1.6's on that cam get you .490 lift on heads with big flows over .500

 

Headers are in the budget already. So would the consensus be that I'd be better with a roller cam, and cheaper heads? If I were to go this route, what cam would be good, and what would be the best heads around $900-1000?

On the cam, I want a fairly aggressive, just to be streetable with decent vacum. I've read a lot of storys with too much cam, and don't want to end up that way.
If I stay with flat tappet cam, Does anyone have a cam in mind that they have a good experience with?

 

Check with your header manufacturer if they like straight plugs or angle plugs, that can narrow your choices

The biggest drawback to the Brodix IKs is that they only come in straight plug configs. They are a good head for the money.

Under $1000, there's patriot.
https://www.patriot-performance.com/...&cat=40&page=1

Fully CNC'd at $1100
https://www.patriot-performance.com/...&cat=67&page=1

Go to the roller cam, there's no reason not to. A set of roller lifters is $120 from GM performance. The cam is no more expensive than the one your looking at.

"best heads" are the ones that match your cam, intake, and exhaust within your budget. That's when the combination comes together.