Just a quick update. I haven't had alot of time or money lately to think about the 421. My wife is due in 2 days, so we have been buying stuff, and making sure we are ready. It could be any day literally now! Family is always first!

Tony from AFR, and my engine builder Jim Barth have both talked me into going with a little more cylinder head, and a little more camshaft.

So I have sold my AFR 195cc Street Port Eliminator’s 1040 AFR's, and the Comp camshaft 230/230 .595/.595, and the best thing is I didn’t loose any money.

I will be replacing them with the AFR 196cc Comp Port Eliminator’s, and a Comp cam XE grind camshaft 236/242 .62x/.58x on a 113 lobe separation.


This will be the FINAL head, and cam selection as I can’t afford to change again. These heads will be flowed, and I will post the results. After speaking to Tony and Jim they both advise that this new combo is worth approx 30-40 more HP over the old combination, and have killer power under the curve. In my opinion it's worth the extra money. I also wanted something I could hold on own with a stock C6 Z06, and I think I am there.

After the baby comes, I can get this sucker built, and hopefully have it shipped to Canada very soon.

I am getting these heads directly from Tony at AFR. The initial goal was around 430-440rwhp, but now we will make more power then initially expected. How much is yet to be decided. If I had it my way, I would love to see somewhere in the 470rwhp range and trap around 125 mph. Can it be done with the AFR 196cc heads, and a relatively mild hyd. roller on a big stroker? Only time will tell!



A quick thanks to Tony from AFR, and Jim my engine builder for spending time to help me through this engine build. It has taken a while to get to this point, but it will be a killer engine when it’s done. I would rather take my time, and do it right the first time, plus I am not made of money. These things aren't cheap fellows!


421 Combo

-4 Bolt Bowtie block. 1 Piece rear main seal.
-AFR 196c Eliminator Comp Ports 65cc. (Approx 30xcfm/23xcfm@.600)
-11.6 CR.
-Callies Compstar Crank.
-JE Pistons JE#103742 solid dome.
-Crower Rods #SSP93302 with 7/16" bolts.
-TPIS Miniram ported.
-Comp Cam XE Hyd Roller 236/242 .62x/.58x on a 113 lobe separation.
-ZF6 Tranny.


My next thread on the 421 will be pictures of the motor completely finished! I am about 90% there.

 

That's a big motor...why not the 210 Eliminator comp ports? The rest of your combination seems to support them.

 

I believe you made the correct choice, the new parts will perform better. The trick will be getting the intake track and exhaust to flow enough to support the engine.

 

That should be an easy goal to achieve ! Look for 130 MPH, that would be the goal to strive for.

Good luck and keep us updated. Looks like an awesome setup so far.

Vic

 

Whats the grind number on the cam you are using?

 

He doesn't want to rev the motor and is not going for max peak HP.

 

that motor is gonna rev to 6000 plus anyway, might as well rev it up. Revs dont hurt motors if they are built right

looks like a solid combo tho

 

I have to ask you a couple of things. How much is enough? What is the goal of this build? It seems every time you post you are either stating how awesome your engine will be or how awesome the "new" combination will be. If the last combination was going to work so well, why change a thing? If you want a better cylinder head how good of one do you want? People can provide you with an altered valve angle head with a runner sized for your application if you want real power everywhere. In the end it's your build (and you should remember the you part) and you can do what ever you want; it just sounds a little like people are steering you this way and that. If you picked the parameters, the sacrifices and such, talked with your builder and settled on parts to make what you wanted, why change?

 

Thats a pretty well matched set-up, should make good power.

On your camshaft, is that intake lift with a 1.7 rocker ? Or does CC make a grind w/ .620 lift with 236 on the intake lobe ?

 

For some reason I thought your original heads were 180's. Ive never heard of the 196's before. Whats the part number.

 

Oh I agree but the fact is the 195s will benefit the lower RPM band better than the 210s will and of course 210s would do a better job up top.

This build would run strong even with 3.08s in it and some people just prefer a setup like that.

He is not looking for MAX E.T., MPH or HP. His goal is 450-460RWHP, 125MPH trap speed and to easily do 11s in a mild streetable combo with a soft launch 1.9-2.0 60-foot.

He should be able to reach those goals without spinning it past 6100-6200RPM. If he can reach those goals without spinning it high and without pushing his hydraulic cam to the edge of valve float, why should he?

He did say he consulted with Tony Mamo on this. Obviously if he told Tony he wanted max HP the 195s would not have been the 1st choice yet they should still provide a fantastic all round power/torque output that will put a big grin on his face everytime he drives it............


















.........till I pull on him with my smaller motor/cam of course!

Details on my 393AFR build coming shortly

 

I was informed by Tony and Jim that these heads will fit the bill. If I was going with a solid roller and expecting to make over 500rwhp then I would of went with bigger heads. I am looking at streetable combo that still gets decent gas mileage. Plus these heads are extremely efficient as you probably know. I have never seen a head that flows that much cfm with such a small port. I'd imagine Tony knows his stuff.

 

I like the new cam choice

I agree with the heads being better for the lower RPM range.

My 210's work great from 3500-up

If you would have kept the 210's you could have used gearing to help compensate somewhat for the low end loss,,,, or go FI

 

That is with 1.6's. Beach we are thinking it will rev to around 6300 rpm's with that combo.

 

Your right, no reason but like he says above, its still gonna rev to if not over 6000 rpms. If your gonna go to 6000, might as well make it 6500 to fully take advantage of the heads/intake.
thats a nice cam, but i dont know the advertised durations on it for total overlap. I think it will peak near 5900-6000. Probly shift by 6200. thats not that high for a hydraulic roller and good springs


and yes, comp cams makes a 236 XE lobe with .624 lift on a 1.6 rocker. I really hope you have good springs. AFR's 8019's are nice but could use alittle shimming but you'll be close to maxing out the lift capability of that spring

 

IMHO a 400+ inch motor can't have enough head and you will NEVER put a 23* head on its that too big. If anyone thinks they loose bottom end power you are WAY WAY mistaken. I could not believe the difference in power moving up into the 400CI motor power.

I am running 227cc heads and wish someone made a 23* head that had a much larger port that still flowed well across the board. If I had it to do all over again I would have gone 18* as it would not be that much more cost other than a header solution. The guys I have spoke with that are running very strong 420+ inch motors and are using 18* heads are using ports that are in the 250-280cc range! Curtis boggs is a very good head guy and said it would be worth 125-150hp ontop of what I already have with that change!

I realize that the above might be beyond what your "looking" for but I say do it once and do it all-the-way. You could easily put a 200+cc head on that motor and NEVER have a driveability issue. Mine purrs like a kitten and my wife could drive it if I would allow her. (you wouldn't let her either if you knew her driving record!).

Please understand that I am not saying you made a mistake with your setup. I am just pointing out that you can get away with a lot of head/cam on these big motors and still have street manners consistent with a moderately hopped up 350CI motor. Infact my 219cammed 350 with a SR and 190cc AFR headed motor was more difficult to tune than my 434 with 227cc head and a 725 lift solid roller I am using now!

Keep us posted and good luck with your buildup. Also good luck with the little one on the way. I have 5, with the last 2 being twins and they truly are the best thing that can happen to a person. Makes everyday you get up happier and more colorful. Really puts things in perspective. You will have to maybe sacrifice more than you did before, but somehow it makes you love them more with each sacrifice.

 

130 mph is a pretty stout mph man. I won't be lightening up the car. I would assume u would need more then 460-470 rwhp to trap 130.

 

Tony is taking care of that. Sorry I don't know.

 

It's custom

 

Ski, I hear what your saying. I have also heard that you can't run enough cylinder head on the bigger stroker motors. Remember my car will see 99% of street. Your car, and my car will be used for 2 seperate things. You love the 1320, and I couldn't care less if I break into the 10's or not. This 421 is mild in some eyes, but after driving a 245rwhp car, it will be a night and day difference. Plus, I don't think bigger is better in all cases. The port velocity with these heads is unreal. Years ago, 300cfm would of been more common in 215-225cc head. It just so happens Tony has found a way of doing this with a head under 200cc's. Thanks for the warm words about the new addition.