Fuel issue on 95 - please help !!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: New Smyrna Beach FL
Fuel issue on 95 - please help !!!
Apologize in advance for the long thread...
Last week girlfriend drove the car dry, as soon as I got in it the car began stalling / running rough. I got to a gas station, put gas in but it kept dying every mile or so. It would start right up so I got it home eventually.
I figured maybe the fuel level was so low the FP pumped junk into the filter, so I changed the filter out. Car ran perfect for two days, problem fixed ! Not so fast, it slowly began dying again as I was in the middle of driving, now it sits in the driveway and won't start.
Is it possible there is so much junk in the line that it's clogged the filter again ? Maybe the lines are clogged ? Is it possible the fuel pump is now on it's way out ? When I turn the key I hear it initialize. This is very confusing to me since it ran great for two days after changing the FP.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated - need to get her back on the road. Thanks !
Last week girlfriend drove the car dry, as soon as I got in it the car began stalling / running rough. I got to a gas station, put gas in but it kept dying every mile or so. It would start right up so I got it home eventually.
I figured maybe the fuel level was so low the FP pumped junk into the filter, so I changed the filter out. Car ran perfect for two days, problem fixed ! Not so fast, it slowly began dying again as I was in the middle of driving, now it sits in the driveway and won't start.
Is it possible there is so much junk in the line that it's clogged the filter again ? Maybe the lines are clogged ? Is it possible the fuel pump is now on it's way out ? When I turn the key I hear it initialize. This is very confusing to me since it ran great for two days after changing the FP.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated - need to get her back on the road. Thanks !
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Running the tank dry does not "pump more junk." Think about it. The pickup is in the bottom of the tank.
However, running the pump dry tends to overheat the pump. If it was running fine prior, it is most likely the pump.
Check the fuel pressure.
However, running the pump dry tends to overheat the pump. If it was running fine prior, it is most likely the pump.
Check the fuel pressure.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: New Smyrna Beach FL
I am getting a fuel guage today to test, but I had seen in some other threads that is was possible for the pump to send junk through the lines, which is why I swapped the filter. If the pump was bad I would think the filter swap wouldn't have fixed the problem (for a couple days). Either way it does point to the pump now, just didn't want to have to go down that road and was hoping maybe someone had this happen in the past.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: New Smyrna Beach FL
Searching the threads it doesn't look too hard - nothing compared to the opti / wp replacement I did two months ago. I was initially thinking the replacement was similar to the F-body's where you had to drop the tank, but this job doesn't look too hard. I'm sure I'll end up making it a challenge though.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
Get the fuel pressure guage on it before you start throwing $$$ at it. The pump is cooled by the fuel in the tank so it's a possibility you damaged it. And you can suck up sediment.....you'll see that if you replace the pump, the sock (filter will be really nasty). Pump and sock run about $100., fuel pressure guage ( a very important tool) runs $35-40. at AutoZone. And since you don't have Multech injectors I'd run some Techron through it.
Oh yeah, if you do need to replace the pump (it's very easy) just becareful when you pull the lid off not to damage the rubber gasket.
Oh yeah, if you do need to replace the pump (it's very easy) just becareful when you pull the lid off not to damage the rubber gasket.
Last edited by rick lambert; Sep 24, 2008 at 01:32 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Nobody said that you can't suck up sediment. You will not suck any more sediment from a near empty tank than you will from a full tank.
The stuff settles to the bottom.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
You still need the sock.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: New Smyrna Beach FL
Looks like step one will be fp gauge tonight, then we'll go from there.
Also going to check to see if there is water in the gas and will probably replace the gasket anyway while I'm at it. We've had some very severe rain over the past couple days so with my luck water got into the tank somehow at the same time the tank ran low causing multiple issues. Quoted $94 for pump and sock, 40 for gauge and since this car is stock (daily driver) there's really no need to go with a better flowing fp. If there's no pressure at the gauge reading then it's probably safe to assume the fp got fried unfortunately.
Thanks
Also going to check to see if there is water in the gas and will probably replace the gasket anyway while I'm at it. We've had some very severe rain over the past couple days so with my luck water got into the tank somehow at the same time the tank ran low causing multiple issues. Quoted $94 for pump and sock, 40 for gauge and since this car is stock (daily driver) there's really no need to go with a better flowing fp. If there's no pressure at the gauge reading then it's probably safe to assume the fp got fried unfortunately.
Thanks
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
And that is why it has a sock in the tank. To the OP I have read of some socks getting nasty and acting like a bad Fuel pump/filter. All the sock is is an extra screen to keep larger sediment out of the fuel loop or we would be changing fuel filters every year or so..The correct way to diagnose this is to put a fuel gauge on the scrader valve on the passenger side of the rail and check FP when you turn the key on,when it is running, and after you turn it off. Should be ~42PSI give or take a couple and maintain it at all 3 tests. If it drops quickly after shut down it may be a bad injector or FPR but it will probably slowly drop at shut down over an hour or so but not to zero..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
sediment n. Material that settles to the bottom of a liquid.
Whether a foreign particle settles out in gasoline is a function of its density realtive to gasoline and the degree of agitation.
The real nasty heavy stuff will settle and be difficult to unsettle. Lighter particles that are only slightly denser than gasoline will unsettle easier. Particles that are less dense than gasoline will stay in suspension.
It is these particles that dislodge from the bottom that are stopped by the sock. The rest is probably too small for the sock. They are caught by the inline filter.
Whether a foreign particle settles out in gasoline is a function of its density realtive to gasoline and the degree of agitation.
The real nasty heavy stuff will settle and be difficult to unsettle. Lighter particles that are only slightly denser than gasoline will unsettle easier. Particles that are less dense than gasoline will stay in suspension.
It is these particles that dislodge from the bottom that are stopped by the sock. The rest is probably too small for the sock. They are caught by the inline filter.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Did you read the rest of the post? We are talking about the same thing.
The question is whether or not the chance of plugging the sock or inline filter increases as the fuel level drops. I said it does not increase significantly assuming the dislodged sediment is dispersed evenly.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
And the worst time to fill your tank is just after the fuel trucks have filled the tanks, guess why? stirs up the sediment!
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
The pump has a big filter that takes that stuff out. I understand the mechanics of it. I don't think you do.
And the worst time to fill your tank is just after the fuel trucks have filled the tanks, guess why? stirs up the sediment!
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
And the worst time to fill your tank is just after the fuel trucks have filled the tanks, guess why? stirs up the sediment!
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
To the OP, get a can of Heat (sp) from the auto parts store, dump it in the tank, that will take care of any condensation in the tank and also the fuel line.
Mk 82, think of it this way. There's always a certain amount of sediment (yes, sediment means something that settles to the bottom) or contaminants floating around in a continously moving vehicles fuel tank. That's settles, but it doesn't attach to the bottom. So when you run a 20 gallon tank down to "barely making it to the gas station" your simply sucking up the worst, not only causing the pump to over heat.
I'll tell you, my sock was very nasty when I pulled it.
Again and theconcentration increases with less in the tank making it more probable to coat the sock. I guess he just wants to argue and doesn't get it himself.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Tell me why you continue to make these personal with me. Why not leave it to the engineers?
Why not let the person I was replying to fight his own battle.
Why not let the person I was replying to fight his own battle.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Did you read the rest of the post? We are talking about the same thing.
The question is whether or not the chance of plugging the sock or inline filter increases as the fuel level drops. I said it does not increase significantly assuming the dislodged sediment is dispersed evenly.
The question is whether or not the chance of plugging the sock or inline filter increases as the fuel level drops. I said it does not increase significantly assuming the dislodged sediment is dispersed evenly.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Do you understand that suspended material sucked up by the fuel pump sticks to the sock. That means that the concentration of suspended material does not increase. There is still X grams/ gal.
Last edited by MK 82; Sep 24, 2008 at 05:00 PM.