anybody have any information on the following bins? specifically, if they are stock or modified (what engine mods). i'm taking a shot here, hoping some of the self-tuners on the board have looked at these or know about them.

thanks, edl

89vets 6E.bin
ACSV 6E.bin
AJUL 6E.bin
Apkd1374 6E.bin
Apyn3496 6E.bin
APYP 6E.bin
APYU3516 6E.bin
Arap 6E.bin
AUJL 6E.bin
AUJM 6E.bin
AUJN 6E.bin

 

Have you noticed there is a C4 Scan&Tune section on this website?

 

notice i've been around 2 years longer than you?

 

I have never opened any of those, so unless it states modified without opening them/and a compare, it would be impossible to know. I do know there are some modded bins posted, I personally would not start there.

 

thanks for the response mseven.

that is the problem i have with them, there is no indication they are modded, and not being familiar with what to look for, i'm shooting in the dark with them. that's why i was hoping somebody would say, oh yea, that's my bin and here are the specifics.

what i'm looking for is a conservative spark advance table for a miniram 377.

 

if you want I can probably go through what I have and come up w/a stock 32 or ARAP bin for you as a 'compare' bin.
As a reminder, don't forget to re-calculate cylinder volume for your new tune...I'm sure you are probably familiar w/the rest

 

well, i'm trying to learn how to tune, been doing a bit of reading and searching of the archives here. bought an ostrich and XtremeALDL a few months back. i also have a tune from Alvin, but it seems a bit conservative. have a look at the spark table (no PE advance).

39.02 43.95 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 35.16 35.16 35.16 35.16 35.16
39.02 43.95 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10
39.02 43.95 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10
39.02 43.95 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 30.94 30.94 30.94 30.94 30.94
39.02 43.95 47.11 46.06 41.84 41.13 37.97 33.05 30.94 30.94 30.94 30.94
39.02 43.95 47.81 47.11 47.11 43.95 43.95 35.86 26.02 26.02 26.02 26.02
39.02 43.95 47.81 47.11 47.11 46.06 43.95 35.86 26.02 26.02 26.02 26.02
39.02 43.95 47.81 47.11 47.11 46.06 43.95 33.75 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
39.02 43.95 46.41 47.11 46.06 45.00 43.95 35.86 23.91 23.91 23.91 23.91
36.56 38.67 40.08 46.06 46.06 43.95 41.13 34.10 22.85 22.85 22.85 22.85
35.86 39.02 41.84 43.95 41.84 41.13 37.97 34.10 22.85 22.85 22.85 22.85
29.88 39.02 41.13 41.13 39.02 39.02 37.97 34.10 23.55 22.50 22.85 21.09
26.37 29.53 32.34 40.08 40.08 37.97 35.86 31.99 25.31 21.09 21.09 17.93
20.04 22.50 29.88 36.91 35.86 34.10 34.10 28.13 18.98 16.52 14.06 14.06
24.96 24.96 24.96 29.88 29.88 28.13 27.07 21.80 15.12 15.12 15.12 15.12
24.96 24.96 24.96 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 15.12 15.12 15.12 15.12 15.12
20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 15.12 15.12 15.12 15.12 15.12

and PE v rpm

38.28
77.34
69.53
64.06
27.34
11.72
-7.82
-7.82
-17.19
-25.78
-21.10
-0.00
-0.00
6.25
6.25
11.72
11.72

i've sent Alvin some logs, should get a re-tune this coming week. like i said though, eventually i want to do my own tuning, so i've been comparing and trying to understand various bins.

i did make these changes to the spark table and felt a SOTP difference with no detonation.

47.11 47.11 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 35.16 35.16 35.16 35.16 35.16
47.11 47.11 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10
47.11 47.11 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10 34.10
47.11 47.11 47.11 45.00 40.08 39.02 37.97 37.97 33.05 30.94 30.94 30.94
47.11 47.11 47.11 46.06 41.84 41.13 37.97 40.08 35.16 31.99 31.99 31.99
48.16 48.16 48.16 47.11 47.11 43.95 43.95 45.00 36.91 34.10 31.99 29.88
48.16 48.16 48.16 47.11 47.11 46.06 43.95 46.06 40.78 35.86 31.99 29.88
48.16 48.16 48.16 47.11 47.11 46.06 43.95 44.65 39.73 33.75 30.94 29.88
48.16 48.16 48.16 47.11 46.06 45.00 43.95 42.19 39.02 31.99 29.18 27.07
46.06 46.06 46.06 46.06 46.06 43.95 41.13 42.19 40.08 29.88 26.02 24.96
43.95 43.95 43.95 43.95 41.84 41.13 37.97 34.10 33.05 29.88 26.02 24.96
41.13 41.13 41.13 41.13 39.02 39.02 37.97 34.10 35.16 29.18 23.91 22.15
29.88 29.53 40.78 40.08 40.08 37.97 35.86 33.05 30.94 27.07 23.20 21.09
20.04 29.88 40.08 36.91 35.86 34.10 34.10 28.13 26.72 24.61 20.74 20.74
24.96 24.96 24.96 29.88 29.88 28.13 27.07 26.37 24.26 20.39 20.39 20.39
24.96 24.96 24.96 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04
20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04

but, it is running VERY rich at WOT; AFR's in the low 9's!

i would like to see the compare bin you mention (eddie_d_lopez@hotmail.com).

thanks again mseven...

 

The ARAP from Moates appears to be the same as any I have downloaded from other sites .It is the bin that most use when starting a tune but has very aggressive spark advance mid range that needs pulling back.

The MR is a special case as far as tune goes ;especially off idle stumble / backfires.
Have a look over on 3rd Gen
More tuners over there..... the F-body boys "adapt" their cars more than Vette owners

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...hlight=miniram

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...hlight=miniram

 

no problem email sent. The PE values above, would depend on a few factors, coolant, inj. con. etc. however, they do look pretty fat. However, if you are going by the data master afr and not a real AFR meter, the 9. could be fictitious. Changing certain tables can show a low or higher AFR when viewing in data master. Either way, better to start on the fat side. Looks like you added a lot of timing in the lower load ranges for de-cell I presume....start looking at using dfco.

 

the 89vets 6E.bin is pretty aggressive as well...

yea, i've been looking over there as well, i'll do some more digging though and maybe register an account.

 

trying to understand all those variables is where i'm at now, but i'm slowly making progress.

i agree, i think thats what Alvin had in mind, safe tune to start and go from there. my next purchase may be one of Moates wide-band systems. i saw one set-up that would "only" set me back around $250.00. the only question i have is if it can be datalogged somehow, i kinda doubt the lower prices units can be, but not sure.

 

The Innovate WB ( probably the others as well ) can be logged using the supplied software but the experts over on 3rd Gen are still trying to figure out how to integrate the signal back into the 165 ECM so the WB output is logged with say Datamaster.
As it stands you get a WB log and a Datamaster log but no reference to tie them together for analysis.
On the later ECM's they use a A/c signal input to get the signal in.

 

haven't tried it on the 165, using a 727/730 w/the apu1, the apadc allows interfacing.
Rod,
I thought moates had the use of the lm interface using tuner pro rt w/the 165 resolved ? if not he will have to have to use the LM as a stand alone and w/rpm, correct.

 

I started this reply last night, but forgot to actually post it. Mick already commented on the AFR targets, but I wanted to add that there is something else to consider that may not be obvious.

Those target AFRs in the 9s may not really be as rich as they appear.

When the target AFR dips below approx. 11:1 you may exceed the pulse width limitation which is inherent in the bin's programming due to the order of operations in the pulse width calculation. An overflow occurs which limits the maximum pulse width before the injector constant is considered.

The result is a flat pulse width despite further increasing airflow or decreasing AFR targets. If you really require this much fueling, some special changes are required to get around the limitation, so its doubtfull that you're actually getting enough fuel to go below 11:1, unless this limitation has already been corrected for.

Since I never see this discussed, I assume that most are unaware of the phenomenon. It is more of an issue with supercharged cars, but could be a problem for a big inch N/A setup as well.

A note on datalogging: You can log the WB output signal with one of the ecm's MAP inputs. This of course, requires some programming changes in order to read the new input and add the signal into the data stream.

An easy way would be to correct the fuel pump voltage A/D channel read to the appropriate MAP sensor input to instead read the WB signal (since this is already in the data stream) and then rescale the signal in the datalogging software to the correct units for display purposes.

 

Hey Pat, that's what I was refering too, as I remember Craig using the MAP input in an older post over in tgo.

 

For those that are interested, PM me for a method to correct the pulse width limitation for either of the 165 ecm masks.

 

tequilaboy and mseven are awesome. the breadth of knowledge is truly inspiring for us newbie tuners...



i'm going to look into the WB solution over the holidays; i've got two weeks off, so plenty of time for tinkering.

 

Mick,

Here's the other manual flag in $6E that we discussed offline:

Note: The first value is the flag, the second is the offset. Set the flag to one and bump the offset from 5 to 10 (or 0x0A) for starters.

;------------------------------
; MANUAL PARAMS
;------------------------------
LC579 FCB 0 ; FLAG = 1 IF MANUAL, else = 0 <----<<<<<
LC57A FCB 5 ; 5 STEPS

ADDTED TO T/F IN DRIVE & x MPH
; MPH = LC545, 1.8 MPH.

Here's some more stuff related to CARS (CAGS):

The 4th gear N/V (rpm/mph) limits should be adjusted to fit the cars actual axle ratio.

This is also from the ARAP source hac (which is configured for an auto).


;======================================= =======
; GEAR DETERMINATION CALIB'S
;
;======================================= =======
LC291 FCB 255 ; 1st GR N/V Ratio
LC292 FCB 35 ; 4th gear MAX N/V ratio
LC293 FCB 30 ; 4th gear MIN N/V ratio

LC294 FCB 8 ; 0.8 sec, 4th gear timer
; CAL = Arg * 10, (8/10 Sec)

;======================================= =======
; CARS
;
;======================================= =======
LC295 FCB 255 ; 151c, CK CARS ACTIVE IF COOL GT THRESH

LC296 FCB 0 ; MPH/1 RESET SPEED FOR CARS
LC297 FCB 0 ; MPH/1 ENABLE SPEED FOR CARS
LC298 FCB 0 ; MPH/1 DISABLE SPEED FOR CARS
LC299 FCB 0 ; RPM/25 DISABLE SPEED FOR CARS
LC29A FCB 0 ; %TPS DISABLE TPS FOR CARS

;======================================= =======

Here are the settings From APYP 1989 6 speed 3.33/3.54:

LC291: 6E = 110 decimal ; 1st GR N/V Ratio
LC292: 61 = 97 decimal ; 4th gear MAX N/V ratio
LC293: 1E = 30 decimal ; 4th gear MIN N/V ratio

LC295: 78 = 120 = 70 C
LC296: 01 = 01 mph
LC297: 0C = 12 mph
LC298: 13 = 19 mph
LC299: 30 = 48 = 1200 rpm
LC29A: 5A = 90/255 = 35% tps

I've never tuned CAGS, but if it is still desired for some reason, I would consider reducing the tps threhold to something like 5% to disable it most of the time.