Let's hear how long it took to install your headers. What problems did you have? Which bolts are hard to get to? I'm going to be installing my Stainless Works in the next couple of weeks and I'd like to get a best case / worst case scenario of what to expect.

 

My old thread on the issue:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...for-2151s.html

It took months, because of hard to reach bolts, a set of tools that I now know was insufficient, a lack of experience (I was only 19 at the time and this was my first major car project), refusal to move certain parts (engine/transmission) to more convenient places, fitment issues, elimination of emissions systems, etc.

I installed headers simply because my cats were clogged and I didn't want to pay for new ones. I later found out that this decision would be at the expense of being able to access my spark plugs, having a clean looking plug-wire arrangement, having the wonderful stock low-end-heavy torque curve, having an engine that makes its power relatively quietly and isn't noisy at idle, having $1000, and having an entire summer's worth of car-care time that could have gone somewhere else. The $300 jet-hot thermal coating I got for the headers rusted completely off after a year of exposure to grime and road salt.

The only benefits were a negligibly higher peak-horsepower number, cooler engine bay temps, and a lighter car. Well, OK, I guess that I also obtained enough experience with tools, disassembly, and solving physical issues to make the rest of my life much easier when it comes to car repair.

If I had to do it over, I'd probably stick with simple cat eliminators, but back then I was planning on having a very upgrade-heavy approach, aiming at high peak-horsepower numbers. Now I just want to drive, and having a car that drives well is more important.

Now, assuming you read all that and you're still going to do this project (which I assume you are since you've already bought the headers):

Rent or buy an engine hoist with chains (you'll want to unbolt the engine mounts, and possibly detach the transmission to move the whole engine, in order to access the manifold bolts and the cat braces), four sturdy well-designed jack stands, and multiple jacks (make sure one of them is a hefty jack, with a wide and flat cup that can both go very very low as well as at least 2 or 3 feet high... I found a big jack at Advance Auto parts that is perfect for scooping up underneath this car as well as getting it very high off the ground).

I've heard that a several-foot-long socket extension comes in handy for reaching the bellhousing bolts from under the car; at least make sure your toolset includes some long extensions, universal joints (put tape around them so they don't flop around limply), and wobble extensions. I think there is also a need for a set of Torx sockets.

One of the big things that made this job easier was eventually finding a way to get all four corners of the car safely high enough off the ground for me to have a lot of room to work underneath. You can jack it up right underneath the mirror, placing the cup under the metal rocker panel flange that sticks down - just watch out for fuel/brake lines, which is where having a wide flat saddle/cup comes in handy. Placing the jack here lifts the entire left or right side of the car at once.

From there, you can slide boards under the tires and switch to the other side to get it off the ground as well. Progressively alternate sides and add boards to get the car higher and higher until you can fit your jack stands under all four corners, and then you can remove all the boards. Keep alternatingly lifting each side of the car higher to raise the jack stands to higher settings if you need to. Just don't try to jack one side more than a couple inches higher than another side that's supported only by jack stands - the stands will tilt right over and the car will come down.

Once the car is high enough, you can slide your actual jacks (not jack stands) under it (extended until they're almost touching the frame) as "safeguards." Then, attempt to rock the car back and forth a few times to make sure it's stable, make sure the car is level and none of the jack stands are teetering, and at that point you're completely safe to get under the car without any risk of it crushing you.

Some more of my threads that were related to this project:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-g...-it-towed.html (Late in the project)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...rs-for-me.html (Funny / Horrible)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-solution.html (EVAP)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-air-pipe.html (AIR)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...fold-stud.html (Stupid question by me)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...to-an-lt4.html (The beginning)

 

FYI: LouisvilleLT4's experience is not typical. You pulled the engine to install headers?

The factory cat brackets can be a pain. But, nothing a cut-off wheel can't cure. When I installed my EM long tubes I did it in two phases. Remove the old exhaust, then on another day install the headers. Probably took me six or eight hours total.

 

Wow that's quite a story Louisville



I have already swapped out my cat back system last weedend. I also had some trouble with the drivers side cat bolts. How did you connect to the rest of the cat backs with the headers? I figure I'll either get lucky or end up going to the muffler shop.

 

The front tubes on the cat-back will need to be altered. Mine had to be shortened and narrowed. A local Midas Muffler took care of the alterations and the 3" to 2 1/2" reducers to connect to the cat-back,. Think I paid ~$130.

 

First off, my experience was typical of someone with no tools, no experience, and no idea how to get the car high up off the ground. You seem to dismiss the rest of my post, but it consisted of pretty useful advice towards those points, so don't imply that the long and detailed post I just typed doesn't contain useful information.

You are right about it not being typical in one way, though. Keep in mind that your header experience was much different from mine because your headers were actually designed to fit your engine bay; mine were not. Hooker 2151's were meant for early C4 engine bays and L98 engines, not my '96 LT4. You collide with so many things when trying to rig up an LT4 car with those. I suppose that explains a lot of the extra work I did, which in hindsight means the OP probably won't have to worry as much about it.

Although I actually did not pull my engine, it did help to loosen the engine mount bolts to access the original manifold bolts and cat braces. I later found that I had to turn these engine mount bolts backwards and grind them down quite a bit in order for the headers not to hit them. I also had to relocate, stretch, grind, or simply do away with a number of other parts (including all the stock plug-wire harnesses) for that same reason. I was butchering my car and I knew it, but at that point I was really damned determined to get those headers working, perhaps just to prove that I could.

Same here. One side of my stock catback was significantly longer and had to be cut; both sides needed expanders to fit my headers, and a triangle flange welded on. The local muffler shop knew exactly how to take care of it.

 

My experience was also in the 4 hour range actual working time. My biggest issue was connecting up to the Corsa exhaust. Nothing major there just had to get one of the pipes enlarged and one O2 bung welded in. I have a '96 and it has 4 O2's. I also purchased the SW headers. I was somewhat disappointed in the actual fit of the header flange to the head. I used Felpro gaskets. I had to elongate the outer holes on the header flange on both sides to get all the studs in their respective holes. I used studs instead of bolts perhaps that is why. The spacers for the alternator bracket were a pretty light weight material so I went to the local hardware and got a couple of spring steel sleeves the same size and just cut them to the length needed. The overall performance of the headers was a let down for me. After a dyno comparison with a basically stock exhaust manifold I only picked up 3 hp and 12 hp in torque. I do need to get my AFR adjusted so I'm hoping that will help out some on the power improvement. The one thing that stands out with these headers for me was the sound improvement. It is just awesome!

Overall I'm pleased with the SW headers although I think they are way over priced for what you get out of them.

Good luck on your install.

 

 

I have a 1994 Coupe and installed a set of Exotic Muscle LT headers. I alos did it in several stages with very little troubles along the way. I think the biggest PITA was removing the Cat Brackets, however I did think about cutting them off, I broke down and bought a nice set of short ratcheting wrenches and that helped immensely. Those bolts are slow going and I think each wrench movement is about an eighth of a turn. Once those brackets were removed the rest of the install was pretty straight forward.

For header bolts I used a combination of ARP standard hex head header bolts and socket head bolts to fasten the flange where the header runners where so close to the mounting holes, or where I could not swing a wrench or ratchet. Matter of fact I have a complete set of fancy locking header bolts that I paid good money for and never used.

As far as fitment, I think the EM tubes could not have been any better. The easiest part of the job was actually threading the headers into place.

I plumbed the headers into RT cats and a Magnaflow X pipe and a three inch "axle back" system. I drove it with open headers to a local exhaust shop to install the rest of the system. That cost me more than I liked, but they did a pretty good job and I didn't have to wrestle all those parts up in there and do any welding.

All in All I think people's experiences will be different depending on what headers they have purchased. I think you will read in old threads that the Stainless Works and Exotic Muscle Headers are the two best sets to buy. so you are on the right track.

Good Luck and give us a yell when you get frustrated while trying to remove those Cat brackets. Its a right of passage! LOL

 

I put the SLP 3" cat backs on so I'm actually going from the 2 1/2" HiFlo cats to a 3" cat back not the other way around. I really wish the SW headers were 1 3/4 and not 1 5/8, there is some debate on weather some power is left on the table with the 1 5/8. I will be doing a mild build with ported heads and intake and a cam so this concerns me

 

Louisville, I don't think anyone was critisizing. IMO your experience was not typical in the overall sence. But, your also right, from your post I applaud your tenacity. Anyone here knows the right tools and knowledge makes a huge difference.

 

I put a set of $150 Hedmans and a complete dual exhaust from Corvette Central on my 86. It was no big deal. I had to do some welding, collectors and O2 bungs, one for the stock O2 and one for the Innovate O2. I had to mod the alt brace, but everything else fell into place. Granted I own a repair shop, so I have access to all the tools I need, so maybe my experience isn't typical.

 

I'm sorry if that's the way my post came through. I just didn't want the OP freaking out thinking that's what he was in store for in his header install. I'm sure a few of your problems will help other avoid the same issues.

 

No worries, I failed to notice that he wasn't trying to install Hooker Super Comps like I was.

Still, I must warn the OP that a lot of my issues will apply to him, and I want him to know that. Firstly there's the work involved, and although the OP might avoid many of the "ghetto rigging" steps I had to use to install Super Comps, and although he'll have a significantly easier time in general due to his experience, the following can never be said enough: Installing headers involves quite a few major steps that go beyond "disassemble everything, swap parts, reassemble."

For example, how does the OP plan on retuning his engine to accomodate the new exhaust dynamics, so as to not cripple his torque curve? What is he doing about each of his O2 sensors and his emissions devices, which his headers might not have holes to accomodate at all, and which could also result in an obnoxious, always present "Check Engine Light" if not properly deleted? Will the brackets that mount to the exhaust in the stock setup (such as alternator, AC, dipstick, and plug-wire harnesses) still mount up? If certain braces are removed, is he aware of the problems that can result (such as premature alternator failure)? Does he have a plan for preventing exhaust gas leaks that result from inadequate gaskets or flanges that warp over time? How will he connect it all to his cat-back? All of these things have to be answered for the install to be successful. Moreover, does he have the tools to deal with some of the most inaccessible and rust-prone bolts on the car?

Secondly, there's the cost-to-benefit analysis, which I touched upon in my post. Is the OP ready to have a harder time reaching and replacing spark plugs and other engine bay parts where access is usually taken for granted? Is he ready to have to yell to talk to his passenger at idle, and to have less desire to hit the gas because of the disproportionate loudness that will result? Is he ready to spend at least as much as the headers cost to have a muffler shop weld them up and another specialist retune his computer, before ever seeing any benefits?

Most importantly, speaking of benefits, is he aware that the performance benefits of headers are often exaggerated, are miniscule without the presence of other power mods that significantly raise the demand for airflow, and can possibly be negative in terms of seat of the pants low-end torque? If headers don't even provide enough desirable benefits to the OP to outweigh their costs, the amount of work involved in doing it is kind of a moot point.

 

These are all valid points and very benificial information. Mostly this type of information I'm ok with. My OP was to get an idea of what it would take to do the actual R & R. What was the average time to do, was there any trip ups that would be good to know specific to the C4 cars. For instance I wasn't sure if it would be necessary to undo engine mounts and lift engine. As for the benefit, I'm sure that the benefits will be evident once I get the other mods done. The headers should compliment the head, intake and cam work that will come next. I've already orders these parts and will be looking for information on that next. I have a well equiped shop, I will be getting a tune when all is done, and after installing the SLP cat back I already can't hear myself think. Still your post is good reading

 

Aha, I hadn't seen that you had already replied - I'll stop adding points to that post now

Many threads that start like yours come from people who are in over their head, but fortunately it looks like you know exactly what you're doing (and it would have been great to have someone like you around when I cobbled together my own header install). Hopefully my information can benefit those who don't have so much experience, or who have fallen prey to misconceptions or false hopes about this type of modification.

 

About 6 hours for me, but I wasn't trying to set any speed records. I did just remove all my exhaust though,
in favor of a true dual setup, so removing brackets was of no consequence. I went Hooker Super Comps,
and used ARP fasteners.