Hello all,
I set the timing today on my 86. I set it at 6 degrees BTDC. When i plugged the est connector back in, i took another look with the timing light and noticed that the line was way off it's mark, not even on the scale any more. I disconnected it again, and it went right back to 6 degrees BTDC. I plugged it back in, and BAM, it went back out again. I was told by a friend of mine that this is normal, but i need some reassurance. Yesterday, my intake manifolds were glowing bright red, and i want to be sure that it will not happen again. Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

Glowing intake manifold is not normal, but the timing mark moving with EST plugged back in, is.

 

When I had a 86, after doing what you did, my timing mark went to just off the top of the scale. Diacom reported timing was around 22 degrees BTDC once the engine idled down after being started.

If yours is "way off", it could be that the outer ring of the damper has moved. An adjustable timing light should be able to tell you if the mark on the damper is actually indicating the actual timing. A scanner should tell you too. What you see using a regular timing light and what the ECM is reporting may well be different.

If you can, you can visually check to see if there's any sign of the elastomer being seperated or moving.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Thanks guys

 

I'm guessing that you meant exhaust manifolds?? Even glowing exhaust manifolds would raise concerns for me. Has the engine been modified?

 

that is perfectly normal, on my '91 when I reconnected the EST the mark went just off the scale, but it will vary.

If you run the engine too long without enough spark advance, the exhaust will get very very hot...

 

Yes, exhaust manifolds, and about 2-3 ft. of the pipe. I hope i did'nt burn up my new co2 sensor. I took it out for a long test drive last night, occasionally pulling over to check if anything was "glowing". I had good throttle response, it was running pretty well, but there was still alot of "popping" going on. I believe there is a sensor in the passenger side head that has something to do with the timing. The connection is a little suspect, may be the reason for the popping, don't know for sure. As far as modifications, i thought it was all stock, but upon reading this forum, i come to find out TPIS bigmouth intake manifold is not stock. Also the air runners are not stock, i believe their whats called siamese. The person that sold me the car could not tell me anything about the engine, other than it is a 5.7 liter. Any input with regards to the "popping" would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

You may be running lean.

 

Where is the popping coming from and when does it occur?

 

It seems to be coming from the exhaust, pretty much only when i'm driving.

 

Glowing exhaust manifolds are most often caused by ignition timing that's too retarded. That causes the exhaust gases to continue to burn after existing the exhaust port on the heads. If the glowing continues you can try advancing the base timing another 2 degrees (to 8 degrees BTDC) to see if it goes away. That's shouldn't be necesary though on a stock engine.

Have you been under the valve covers adjusting the lifter preload? One set too tightly can cause your problems.

On the 86 (I had one) you must disconnect the EST connector which is near the power brake booster when setting the base timing (factory spec is 6 degrees BTDC). Now remember BTDC on the timing tab/scale is LEFT (as you face the engine from the front) of ZERO on the scale.

Once the base timing is set, the engine is shut down, the EST connector re-connects and the battery disconneted for about 30 seconds or so to clear the stored SES code. A code gets set when the ECM detects the engine running with the EST disconnected.

The sender screwed in the passenger side head is for the dashboard coolant temperature. It's NOT used by the ECM, that one's screwed into the front of the intake manifold.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Hey jake, thanks for responding. What had happened was i took the distributer out the other day, because it had been installed a few degrees off it's mark, and the plug wires were not in the "proper order" so i set the #1 piston, and drop it in there right, start it up and play with the distributer until it sounds about right {didn't have a timing light} thats when my exhaust system looked like the gates of hell, i couldn't believe how red it was. I ran out and got a timing light the next day and set it at 6 btdc, its running well now, the popping may be my exhaust, the back half is in pretty bad shape. I took it to my friends shop last night,ran a scan on it, It showed two codes 32 & 42, egr system, and est system. The knock sensor on the passenger side of the block that retards the timing, is what i should have said. I get confused.

 

EST is Electronic Spark Timing, right? Did you disconnect the battery after setting the timing with the timing light?

That code will always get set when the engine is run without the EST connector plugged in. Just do the battery disconnect/re-connect and it should go away.

The EGR is a common code. Most often it's caused by the little switch; passenger side rear of the intake and, from memory, has a single wire going to it. I'm going from memory on this but I believe it screws into a pipe that runs between the intake and exhaust manifolds. Porcelain looking?

Also, as I recall it, the timing tab on my 86 only had a scale up to about 14 degrees. Since my TDC indicator would be off the scale after the timing was set with the timing light, that translated into about 22 BTDC which would put the TDC mark off the scale.

With the timing light connected and flashing, the TDC mark should move more counter-clockwise as you rev the engine which indicates the timing is advancing. That's what it's supposed to do.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

 

Hey jake, My friend plugged a pressure gauge with some kind of hand pump, to the valve, and it wasn't holding any pressure. He told me the valve was shot. Pain in the azz, i just had that whole air plenum, runner set up apart, now i have to pull it apart again. I'm spending more time under this thing than in it. Whats that pipe between the intake, and exhaust called? I need to buy one, mines rigged up with two gas valves, and some flex pipe. I wrapped it with exhaust tape, to shut it up.
Thanks,
Mike

 

EGR Tube you will also need new clamps and a heat shield
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?p...5&dept_id=1266

 

I have my BTDC timing set at 12*. I have an '85 and run premium. I had it at 8* then took a trip from Cincinnati, OH to Grand Rapids, MI and bumped up timing to 12* before hand. Didnt notice any knocking or excessive timing retard by the computer. Car seems to respond slightly quicker in dead stop throttle response. I could probably drop the timing back down to 6-8* and run Mid grade gas, but I like the response the car has now.

 

You could pull the crossover pipe and plug the exhaust manifold and intake manifold, then deal with it another day(year).
Been without EGR for 6 years.

 

Try setting it back down to 10* and run regular see how it goes mt 87 runs well at that setting

 

Did you remove the EGR itself or just block the fittings and do you throw any codes

 

I removed it all. No code in 6 years.
Same result if you block the 2 ports and leave the valve in place.