Is my FSM wrong??
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,735
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From: WV
Is my FSM wrong??
In the FSM for my 89 corvette it says the intake manifold gaskets should have the restricted end ( end with small hole) at the front of the engine. Isn't this wrong , shouldn't the small hole be at the back of the engine to restrict coolant flow.?? Thanks Wayne..
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,735
Likes: 412
From: WV
I was pretty sure they went to the rear...(6A1-5) is the page number, first paragraph under picture of intake.It clearly says blocked end of gasket to front of engine..
..
This is the 3rd mistake I have found in my FSM, Im starting to believe its not much better then the Haynes book I have.. Its bad when you can't trust the Factory manual for the right info...Thanks Engle ..Wayne..
..This is the 3rd mistake I have found in my FSM, Im starting to believe its not much better then the Haynes book I have.. Its bad when you can't trust the Factory manual for the right info...Thanks Engle ..Wayne..
Last edited by WW7; Apr 19, 2010 at 01:49 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Yes that is incorrect. Technical writers are not mechanics and or design engineers....they dropped the ball on this one. It should read : Blocked openings in the gaskets to be positioned at the REAR of engine.
The blocked off port on the intake manifold gaskets were designed specifically for the aluminum headed TPI setup on corvettes (86- 91). These years also have an extra hose that runs from a "T" in one of the heater hoses and the other end of this hose lands at the rear of the intake manifold. This extra hose works in conjuntion with the blocked off ports.
The blocked off port on the intake manifold gaskets were designed specifically for the aluminum headed TPI setup on corvettes (86- 91). These years also have an extra hose that runs from a "T" in one of the heater hoses and the other end of this hose lands at the rear of the intake manifold. This extra hose works in conjuntion with the blocked off ports.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,735
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From: WV
Here's another question ...The 383 that Pete K built me was built with a 4 bolt late 80s truck block, and I have Dart alum heads on it.. Would this combination need to use the restricted gaskets on the intake or could I use the gaskets that are open on both ends?? What Im asking is, does using these restricted gaskets have to do with what motor is in my car or does it have to do with the car itself.. Wayne
Last edited by WW7; Apr 19, 2010 at 02:48 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
I've followed your build through Pete's posts - that thing is going to be awesome!
Last I heard your still going to be running the Hi-flow TPI base and LTR setup. If your going back on with the LTR and hi- flow base setup with the extra hose from the heater hose to the intake I'd use the blocked off/restricted intake gaskets.
If your going to block off the extra hose "T"ed into the heater hose and at the intake just run a traditional open ported intake gasket. From what I understand the restricted ports were designed to hold back the coolant in the rear of the heads a little longer for what ever reason.....which may have something to do with the tons of people blowin' head gaskets at # 7 & 8 most frequently.
Last I heard your still going to be running the Hi-flow TPI base and LTR setup. If your going back on with the LTR and hi- flow base setup with the extra hose from the heater hose to the intake I'd use the blocked off/restricted intake gaskets.
If your going to block off the extra hose "T"ed into the heater hose and at the intake just run a traditional open ported intake gasket. From what I understand the restricted ports were designed to hold back the coolant in the rear of the heads a little longer for what ever reason.....which may have something to do with the tons of people blowin' head gaskets at # 7 & 8 most frequently.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,735
Likes: 412
From: WV
Thanks for the explanation.I have picked the engine up from Pete and should have it in next week, and yes Im still using a high flow tpi setup...Im just wondering since I don't have the stock corvette heads or block any longer. Would I be (better off) eliminating the extra hose and pluging the intake hole where that hose goes, then going to the open flow intake gaskets or staying with the stock setup?? Im thinking maybe this open gasket would cool better..
Does anyone know, why did the corvettes have problems with blown head gaskets anyway, was it the head design or was it because of to much heat in the engine causing it to blow... Not to many cars fans come on at 228 degrees..WW
Does anyone know, why did the corvettes have problems with blown head gaskets anyway, was it the head design or was it because of to much heat in the engine causing it to blow... Not to many cars fans come on at 228 degrees..WW
Last edited by WW7; Apr 19, 2010 at 03:45 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
You could go either way I don't think it really matters if you use quality parts and your parts are straight/clean. You could have your coolant fan on/off settings altered to what you desire with somthing as simple as a chip tune.
I rebuilt my stock block & heads (113) last year (.40 over but nothin' super special was done)and went back with all high flow intake stuff however I also went back on with the restrictive (tiny holed) intake manifold gaskets and I've had no issues to date. I run a pretty stock (new but stock) coolant system but I have my fan wired to run all the time so I let the thermostat do the coolant regulation. I started with a 160* stat but then changed to 180* stat once the marathon winter kicked in. My car never hits 215* with the AC off and hangs out @ ~ 205* in 90* weather. It's just my preference to do it this way.
I rebuilt my stock block & heads (113) last year (.40 over but nothin' super special was done)and went back with all high flow intake stuff however I also went back on with the restrictive (tiny holed) intake manifold gaskets and I've had no issues to date. I run a pretty stock (new but stock) coolant system but I have my fan wired to run all the time so I let the thermostat do the coolant regulation. I started with a 160* stat but then changed to 180* stat once the marathon winter kicked in. My car never hits 215* with the AC off and hangs out @ ~ 205* in 90* weather. It's just my preference to do it this way.
Last edited by engle1147; Apr 19, 2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: vero beach florida
Mine has all kinds of errors, biggest being that it refers me to section 6D in several sections, yet there is not a section 6D.
And there are more like it, funny thing is, some of the errors are corrected in the Haynes manual, go figure!!
And there are more like it, funny thing is, some of the errors are corrected in the Haynes manual, go figure!!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 28
From: FL
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 679
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From: vero beach florida
Why in the freak would anyone look in book 1 for 6D, when you are in book 2. Should tell you book 1 section 6D.
Edit: Jim you are mistaken, when it is refering to 6D, it always is talking about a sensor. Look in 6D and there is not any mention of sensors.
Nice try, I am not that blind, yet!!!
Edit: Jim you are mistaken, when it is refering to 6D, it always is talking about a sensor. Look in 6D and there is not any mention of sensors.
Nice try, I am not that blind, yet!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 28
From: FL
Why in the freak would anyone look in book 1 for 6D, when you are in book 2. Should tell you book 1 section 6D.
Edit: Jim you are mistaken, when it is refering to 6D, it always is talking about a sensor. Look in 6D and there is not any mention of sensors.
Nice try, I am not that blind, yet!!!
Edit: Jim you are mistaken, when it is refering to 6D, it always is talking about a sensor. Look in 6D and there is not any mention of sensors.
Nice try, I am not that blind, yet!!!
Apology to the OP for the hijack!
Last edited by toptechx6; Apr 20, 2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: courtesy
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
'89 Service Manual Errors - such as the intake gaskets - were corrected by Service Bulletins so if you want to see all of the corrections, you'll need to get them. It's also a good idea to mark the Schematics with the corrections in the Electrical Supplement or when wiring doesn't match the Schematic, refer to the Supplement. For wiring that goes to nowhere - such as at the Fuel Pump - it's outlined in the Body Electrical foldouts at the rear of the Manual. The '89 harness includes LT5 wiring which of course never made it into production.
The Restrictors work with the Core bypass to keep coolant at the rear of the heads longer. It wasn't used on the F-Bodys. Toss up as to whether or not it's beneficial - particularly since many '89's ended up with blown head gaskets at #7. If you eliminate the restrictors, you can eliminate the Bypass (maybe the only option since the hose is no longer available).
The Restrictors work with the Core bypass to keep coolant at the rear of the heads longer. It wasn't used on the F-Bodys. Toss up as to whether or not it's beneficial - particularly since many '89's ended up with blown head gaskets at #7. If you eliminate the restrictors, you can eliminate the Bypass (maybe the only option since the hose is no longer available).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
I'd still choose a FSM over a Haynes manual any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The "white" preliminary books have more mistakes than the "red" ones(final version). Even the "red" books have adendums to them and some but not all of these issues are covered/corrected in the supplimental pamphlets per year model.
If anybody noitices a "huge" error in the FSMs post it so that others can avoid having an issue.
The "white" preliminary books have more mistakes than the "red" ones(final version). Even the "red" books have adendums to them and some but not all of these issues are covered/corrected in the supplimental pamphlets per year model.
If anybody noitices a "huge" error in the FSMs post it so that others can avoid having an issue.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
'89 Service Manual Errors - such as the intake gaskets - were corrected by Service Bulletins so if you want to see all of the corrections, you'll need to get them. It's also a good idea to mark the Schematics with the corrections in the Electrical Supplement or when wiring doesn't match the Schematic, refer to the Supplement. For wiring that goes to nowhere - such as at the Fuel Pump - it's outlined in the Body Electrical foldouts at the rear of the Manual. The '89 harness includes LT5 wiring which of course never made it into production.
The Restrictors work with the Core bypass to keep coolant at the rear of the heads longer. It wasn't used on the F-Bodys. Toss up as to whether or not it's beneficial - particularly since many '89's ended up with blown head gaskets at #7. If you eliminate the restrictors, you can eliminate the Bypass (maybe the only option since the hose is no longer available).
The Restrictors work with the Core bypass to keep coolant at the rear of the heads longer. It wasn't used on the F-Bodys. Toss up as to whether or not it's beneficial - particularly since many '89's ended up with blown head gaskets at #7. If you eliminate the restrictors, you can eliminate the Bypass (maybe the only option since the hose is no longer available).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Follow up:
For what it is worth....I forgot to mention that with the restrictive gaskets in place there is only a 2 degree difference in temperature between what the ECM sees (coolant sensor in the front of the intake) and what cluster displays (sensor between 6 & 8).
For what it is worth....I forgot to mention that with the restrictive gaskets in place there is only a 2 degree difference in temperature between what the ECM sees (coolant sensor in the front of the intake) and what cluster displays (sensor between 6 & 8).
Last edited by engle1147; Apr 20, 2010 at 01:09 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
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From: backwoods upstate ny
note to OP: most new design high $ racing carb intakes have '4-corner' cooling, few 'hot shoes' are still using just front water...you might wanna follow.
Last edited by redrose; Apr 20, 2010 at 01:14 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Tampa Florida
I'm gunna start using a Honda Accord manual to fix mine from now on....I hear those are close enough
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: FL
what is a 'FSM"?...have looked at bunches of Service Manuals for vettes and other Gm models and cannot find one that shows the 'F' word ???
note to OP: most new design high $ racing carb intakes have '4-corner' cooling, few 'hot shoes' are still using just front water...you might wanna follow.
note to OP: most new design high $ racing carb intakes have '4-corner' cooling, few 'hot shoes' are still using just front water...you might wanna follow.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
The '89 Service Manual is about the worse I've ever seen - though if you've tried to follow a Toyota Manual, they're a close second as they have no logical layout. In GM's defense, it was a transition Year with a lot being cleaned up from the hundreds of service issues that were showing up at the Dealerships a great number of which were electrical and then the ZR1 was suppose to roll out and didn't. If you were a DYI'er there wasn't any internet, the Service Bulletins were a closely guarded secret (probably because there were so many issues), and a Scanner - if you could get Snapon to sell you one - required another mortgage. In addition, some of the Bulletins seem to have been edited; the more critical of which deals with the redesign of the heads. Galvanic corrosion - which appears to be why so many head gaskets seemingly failed - has been edited out. More on TPI is at Street & Performance and might come in handy for any build: http://www.hotrodlane.cc/PDFFILES/TPIStory.pdf