Way back in 2002 I downloaded winaldl and built the cable described on Joby's website. I never got it to read everything right, but finally went back to try to figure out why. Well, I built the cord fine, but put the 10k resistor on the data wire rather than the ground wire so not all the data was showing up. I was especially looking for my BLM values and TCC lockup function.

So...8 years later...My BLM values were 110 at idle and then go up as the rpms increase. The max value was 124. The rich flag is almost always on. Is this bad? Is it time to play w/ the tune? I think the norm is 128, so it doesn't seem too far off to a layman.

And on a side note, the ecm never calls for tcc lock up. That is good news I guess b/c I thought it might be the actual torque converter. I just don't know what the problem could be. I followed the flow chart in the FSM to diagnose the electrical and could not find the problem. The brake switch works, the speed sensor seems to work, I replaced the fourth gear switch and solenoid. I tested the old solenoid and it was fine after I removed it. Anyway, at least now I know it is in the electronics.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


I guess I should mention that my car is pretty stock. Ported plenum, TPIS headers, afpr, no cat, Borla 2.5" catback, updated esc, underdrive pulleys, air delete

 

Leaking injector is typically indicated when need for correction decreases with load. Check/decrease fuel pressure or pull the rail with the injectors and with a towel underneath everything, check for drips after you energize the rail. Otherwise, follow diagnostic hints for a 45 - speaking of which, verify there isn't a 45 - you're not going to get lockup if there's an active troublecode. Make sure it's staying Closed Loop too - particularly since you eliminated the air pump (I presume without switching to a heated O2).

 

Thanks for the response. Very good point. I do have a leaking injector, it has been leaking for a very long time. I didn't think it mattered that much. It just starts fast cold, and starts slow warm. I see now that it does matter, especially at idle and low rpms. So that explains that.

I did switch to a heated o2 sensor back when I put on long tube headers w/o a cat. I am staying in closed loop, and have no trouble codes. I am not getting the tcc lock up flag though. I'll have to just test everything again. It must be just a bad wire or something.

Dave

 

To see if the lock-up works you need to jump the "A" to "F" terminal in the diagnostic connector, that will manually lock up the convertor as soon as you hit 2nd gear. This will allow you to determine if it is a computer issue if it locks up.

 

I'll try it! Thanks. I really hope to find out something. I've got to get this narrowed down.

 

You can verify the manual operation of the TCC by jumpering the ALDL, however this won't tell you why the ECM does not ever command it to lock, which apparently doesn't happen if you never get the TCC command flag.

All the inputs the ECM uses for TCC lockup are the Speed, TPS position, 3/4 gear switch and coolant temp. The TCC will not lock below a set (and editable) coolant threshold - is your coolant temp sensor working correctly (the ECM one, not the one for the gages)?

 

Thanks for the help. My coolant temp sensor should be fine since I'm in closed loop. I did jumper the "F" to "A" a few times in the last couple days, and it doesn't do anything. I don't get it b/c I think that means it is the wires or solenoid. However, the ecm doesn't call for the tcc to lock up, according to winaldl.

 

OK. Here goes... ALDL terminal A is a ground. Actually it's a ground point Internal to the ECM. ALDL terminal F is the ground side of the TCC solenoid.

Grounding ALDL F should engage the solenoid and "lock up" the converter. If that doesn't happen then there is a mechanical problem - wiring to/at the transmission, bad TCC solenoid, faulty converter, etc. Or no power To the TCC solenoid.

Now.. Power to (the hot side) of the TCC solenoid comes from the Gages fuse and thru a switch on the brake pedal. Is it that simple? - is that switch the problem? jumper it and see what happens, or..

At the transmission, the four plug connector. Terminal D (tan/black wire) is the ground (same as ALDL F). Terminal C is unused. Terminal B is the hot wire from the brake pedal switch (purple) and terminal A is the fourth gear switch lead going to the ECM (light blue).

With key on verify that you have power getting to the TCC solenoid - the terminal C (purple) wire at the transmission should be hot. If That's good, and grounding ALDL F doesn't make the TCC solenoid work (of it it doesn't lock up, anyhow), then the problem is internal to the transmission.

BTW - I would have to try it again on mine to be sure, but I'm not certain that the TCC flag in WinAldl (for the '85) even functions. WinAldl does have a few "gotcha's" in the datastream definition, it may well be that the "no flag" deal is the software, not reality.

Or WinAldl *may* just be looking at the ground condition (looking at the voltage) on ALDL F to turn the TCC flag on or not - which isn't really telling you whether or not the ECM is Commanding a lockup - it's telling you that a lockup is or isn't Happening (well, at least Electrically).

Borrow a scan tool (a Real scan tool, like a modis scanner) and see what That says before you trust the WinAldl report on that flag.

Oh - Also.. Changing the TCC solenoid (and verifying the wire To it) inside the transmission is simple, just takes dropping the pan. Nothing to it. Certainly a Lot cheaper and easier than tearing it all out of the car for something that simple. The converter itself is obviously a much bigger deal..

 

Ron,

I really appreciate your write up and advice. I have just replaced the solenoid and fourth gear switch. After replacing the solenoid, I gave the old one 12 volts and it clicked fine. It was only a few years old. I have tested the switch on the brake pedal with a test light to aldl "F". It seems to work just fine. Every time I tap the brake it goes off or on (I forget). I think you may be right about the flag data in winaldl. There is a guy down the street with a Snap On scanner. I should go down there and see what is going on. I think I'm going to do that right now....

 

OK. Just checked the plug. All seems ok. 12 volts to the purple and blue, and open ground to the tan/black. When I jump terminal A to F, then I get continuity at the tan/black (0 ohms/ grounded). So that all seems to be good. It seems like it is in the trans, and the flag for TCC in winaldl does not work for the '85. If anyone knows different please tell me. The reason I think this w/o using a different scan tool is that when I jump the car aldl A to F while driving it does not lock the tcc, however with the ignition on, and the pins jumpered the tan/black wire is grounded. I would still love to see this thing on a scan tool to see the computer call for the TCC, just to verify w/o a shadow of a doubt, that the trans or torque converter need work.

One last thing. I am going back out to check the resistance of the solenoid. That will verify my internal wiring and connector are not at fault. That is a challenging test w/ the TPIS front Y pipe in the way. Result: 23.5 ohms.... So the brand new solenoid is wired correctly.