C5 brakes dilema/question/possible solution?
Racer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 486
Likes: 3
From: el cajon ca
I'm going down the "C5 brakes" road, w/my '92. One thing I realized is that I'll loose my parking brake if I use the C5 rear calipers and rotor.
Can I buy a set of '84-'87 rear e-brake assemblies and then put the drum in the C5 rotor hat, to good use?
One more questions for those who have switched to C5 rotors; did you notice an increase in pedal travel with the new calipers? I measured and found that the C5 calipers have larger pistons, so I assume it will require longer travel to get the pads up against the rotors. Any comments on that?
Can I buy a set of '84-'87 rear e-brake assemblies and then put the drum in the C5 rotor hat, to good use?
One more questions for those who have switched to C5 rotors; did you notice an increase in pedal travel with the new calipers? I measured and found that the C5 calipers have larger pistons, so I assume it will require longer travel to get the pads up against the rotors. Any comments on that?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,270
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From: Winchester VA
Cruise-In V Veteran
Looking HERE and scroll down to "J", it looks like the rear knuckle is the same part number, 84-96. However, when I look on Mitchell, the part numbers for 84-87 are different than '88-'96. So I still don't know for sure...
The early backing plate/parking brake hardware assy in the pics above bolts to the knuckle through the 3 wheel bearing bolts. Wheel bearing bolt pattern is the same 84-96. Old and new knuckle have have what appears to be the same protruding ring on the face of knuckle. There is a chance this ring is not identical from the early to late knuckle. Unlikely though as that would seem to require a different wheel bearing and, as established, 84-96 are the same.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
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From: Park City Utah
If someone can explain why there were pics of SPINDLES, at the end of page one, and how that relates to my mission, I'm all
Right now, I can't see what the spindle has to do w/the backing plate. Is it that the newer, longer spindle is an indicator that the backing plate/caliper bracket are different thickness early to late?
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Apr 28, 2010 at 12:26 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 43
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From: california
Thats is where you would have the problem. The backing plate may bolt to your knuckle. If you look closely at the two spindles: you can see there is a differnce. Your later gen C4 spindle does NOT have the provision for your spindle to seat properly once inserted to the back plate. Look closely at the last picture at the end of the thread.
And also, Your spindle is SHORTER than the 1st Gen spindle. It won't fit fully back into the axle housing if you use the backing plate
I hope this helps....
And also, Your spindle is SHORTER than the 1st Gen spindle. It won't fit fully back into the axle housing if you use the backing plate
I hope this helps....
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
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From: Park City Utah
Not really. I'm not sure what you're saying. What is the "Axle housing"? There is a knuckle, a spindle, a hub assy, and a backing plate/caliper bracket.
I'm going to have someone w/an early C4 come over this weekend, and we'll have a little parts mixing party. See for myself what is going on.
-Tom
I'm going to have someone w/an early C4 come over this weekend, and we'll have a little parts mixing party. See for myself what is going on.
-Tom
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
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From: Park City Utah
And Late ('89):
63BvfpBL!H2WHn8w~~_12.JPG)
^The early spindle is short, the later one is longer...which jibes w/what I'm about to say next...
I think I figured out the "problem"; The early backing plate/caliper bracket does not appear to be as THICK as the later caliper bracket;
Early:
Late:
It seems like whipping up a spacer would solve that problem. OR possibly using the early backing plate, spindle, and then ZR-1 rear wheels (to re-gain my ~1cm of lost rear track) would work to.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Apr 29, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
From: Suwanee,Ga
I'm going down the "C5 brakes" road, w/my '92. One thing I realized is that I'll loose my parking brake if I use the C5 rear calipers and rotor.
Can I buy a set of '84-'87 rear e-brake assemblies and then put the drum in the C5 rotor hat, to good use?
One more questions for those who have switched to C5 rotors; did you notice an increase in pedal travel with the new calipers? I measured and found that the C5 calipers have larger pistons, so I assume it will require longer travel to get the pads up against the rotors. Any comments on that?
Can I buy a set of '84-'87 rear e-brake assemblies and then put the drum in the C5 rotor hat, to good use?
One more questions for those who have switched to C5 rotors; did you notice an increase in pedal travel with the new calipers? I measured and found that the C5 calipers have larger pistons, so I assume it will require longer travel to get the pads up against the rotors. Any comments on that?
Not sure who is "Getting" what your saying, but doing anything C5 to your rear brakes is a an exercise without benefit.
The C4 brakes are every bit as good as the C5 rear calipers?
The C5 rear calipers do nothing more than complicate your life and sped more money?
TJM
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Park City Utah
The gentlemen who answered my actual QUESTION, with helpful information are the ones who "get it".
1. NO! The C5 caliper is stiffer and better than the C4. More importantly, the C5 rotor is thicker, has more space between and better designed cooling vanes, and more overall material to absorb heat.
2. How am I "Spending more money"?? I bought the C5:
*4 Rotors
*4 calipers
*4 sets of pads
*4 hoses
*4 abutment brackets
*All hardware for above
*For $300.00 -it all came together as one purchase. How am I spending "more money". As for "complicate my life"...well, this IS a hobby, and that balance is for me to manage.
Either way, the philosophy of using C5 rear components is not the question at hand or purpose of this thread. You don't "get it", and your post was no help. Thanks for trying though!
2. How am I "Spending more money"?? I bought the C5:
*4 Rotors
*4 calipers
*4 sets of pads
*4 hoses
*4 abutment brackets
*All hardware for above
*For $300.00 -it all came together as one purchase. How am I spending "more money". As for "complicate my life"...well, this IS a hobby, and that balance is for me to manage.
Either way, the philosophy of using C5 rear components is not the question at hand or purpose of this thread. You don't "get it", and your post was no help. Thanks for trying though!
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Apr 29, 2010 at 10:31 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Park City Utah
I can't believe people keep bagging on this idea -especially when at NO TIME DID I ASK ABOUT THE MERIT OF THE PHILOSOPHY- only the technical viability (to which I've gotten no answer). How does this platform progress, if this is the prevailing attitude?? This attitude is why I miss 3rdgen. At least people there are willing to try DIY stuff. Geezus.
This MAY not work out. I MAY just leave my rear brakes alone. But I also MAY figure out a way to make it work easy/cheaply, and then I MAY post my results....and the forum COULD benefit from it...and the platform would have moved forward a bit. Y'all see how that works?
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Apr 30, 2010 at 12:04 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
From: Suwanee,Ga
The gentlemen who answered my actual QUESTION, with helpful information are the ones who "get it".
1. NO! The C5 caliper is stiffer and better than the C4. More importantly, the C5 rotor is thicker, has more space between and better designed cooling vanes, and more overall material to absorb heat.
2. How am I "Spending more money"?? I bought the C5:
*4 Rotors
*4 calipers
*4 sets of pads
*4 hoses
*4 abutment brackets
*All hardware for above
*For $300.00 -it all came together as one purchase. How am I spending "more money". As for "complicate my life"...well, this IS a hobby, and that balance is for me to manage.
Either way, the philosophy of using C5 rear components is not the question at hand or purpose of this thread. You don't "get it", and your post was no help. Thanks for trying though!
1. NO! The C5 caliper is stiffer and better than the C4. More importantly, the C5 rotor is thicker, has more space between and better designed cooling vanes, and more overall material to absorb heat.
2. How am I "Spending more money"?? I bought the C5:
*4 Rotors
*4 calipers
*4 sets of pads
*4 hoses
*4 abutment brackets
*All hardware for above
*For $300.00 -it all came together as one purchase. How am I spending "more money". As for "complicate my life"...well, this IS a hobby, and that balance is for me to manage.
Either way, the philosophy of using C5 rear components is not the question at hand or purpose of this thread. You don't "get it", and your post was no help. Thanks for trying though!
Tom ???? Confused? I'm old and confuse easily.
I see you got a great deal. Yeah you!! An Arab trader, no doubt.
I was hoping to save you a lot of effort, not understanding you want to does this as a challenge.
No input on this bit of mechanical work. Good luck.. It might be do- able.
In an a belated effort to be relevant and be of a tiny smidgen of help; we to have found no difference in peddle travel in the three C5 swaps we have done.
We have replaced master cylinders all three times, though?
TJM
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,963
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From: WI
I'm interested in the results. There have been times when I've been buying C5 calipers that the rears come to, just like your package deal. The only thing I'd do different is not worry about the parking brake. Most track cars don't keep them, extra weight.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,270
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From: Winchester VA
Cruise-In V Veteran
All my parking brake hardware is there but it hasn't worked for over 5 yrs now. A complete lack of use keeps it on the waaaay back burner.
Tom, I completely agree with your hobby / tinker attitude so this question is not argumentative, have you considered moving your front brakes to the rear? I've often thought about doing this but never really took it any further. You seem to be in a pretty good position to make the necessary caliper adapter bracket.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Park City Utah
Thanks guys, for hearing me out. 
Steve85, good word...that is a WICKED COOL IDEA! (now you all know I'm from back east!
)
I hadn't thought about that at all..but why not? I'd increase my pad area, piston area, caliper surface area (cooling). I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I will fart around w/that and see how it looks. I know it will change the braking balance, but that is managable. Thanks for the cool idea.
Steve85, good word...that is a WICKED COOL IDEA! (now you all know I'm from back east!
)I hadn't thought about that at all..but why not? I'd increase my pad area, piston area, caliper surface area (cooling). I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I will fart around w/that and see how it looks. I know it will change the braking balance, but that is managable. Thanks for the cool idea.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,270
Likes: 26
From: Winchester VA
Cruise-In V Veteran
Thanks guys, for hearing me out.
Steve85, good word...that is a WICKED COOL IDEA! (now you all know I'm from back east! )
I hadn't thought about that at all..but why not? I'd increase my pad area, piston area, caliper surface area (cooling). I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I will fart around w/that and see how it looks. I know it will change the braking balance, but that is managable. Thanks for the cool idea.
Steve85, good word...that is a WICKED COOL IDEA! (now you all know I'm from back east!
)I hadn't thought about that at all..but why not? I'd increase my pad area, piston area, caliper surface area (cooling). I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I will fart around w/that and see how it looks. I know it will change the braking balance, but that is managable. Thanks for the cool idea.
I haven't gone far with it on mine becasue of the very high offset on the early car front rotor, I don't think it would clear the backing plate. Maybe I'll remember to test fit a rotor next time I have the wheels off.
I definitely want to hear about any issues / resolutions on moving the front to rear. It might be something I do with some later car front brakes down the road.
BTW, I'm guessing somewhere between northern Jersey and Long Island?
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,642
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From: Suwanee,Ga
'84 fitted up with the '94 calipers with no issues.
Granted C5 calipers make a much more major an major issue.
TJM
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Tom - I like your concept question. I dont know it will work, but I guess the only harm done if you try is time wasted putting the stock stuff back on.
If you try to put a front caliper in the rear it might be too much bias back there with the two piston caliper.