C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Keep C4 or get a C3

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Old Nov 5, 2010 | 01:02 PM
  #41  
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Every time I drive my 1987, I see yellow flags flying. I worry about the Technicolor
Dash going west. I worry about a fuel injector quitting. I worry about the computer failing. Under the dash is enough wiring to wire a air craft carrier, hooking up all the plush trinkets

Used to worry about the same thing as Im horrible with electronic stuff.
As EFI cars age especially ones with lots of electronics such as the C4 seems theres always something that will take a dump..little stuff but to someone who isnt proficient with that stuff its unsettling.

Did the same as you and went to a carbed car. In your case you probably know that not much is as reliable as a good HEI and a Quadrajet they are pretty much worry free. Being as your car will probably be stock or close to it....

EFI when right is always the best but when they hiccup too many times they leave you stranded. My 02 truck is starting to do stupid stuff electrically, little things starting to go out. Just age and its irritating. $800 modules, expensive parts etc that make me not want to own something I bought new and have depended on for yrs.

Sure the C3 isnt as civilized but if youre just cruising it around I think youll be fine plus you got that kick azz body of the shark hard to say no to that.

Make sure the birdcage is clean, the steering components and rear wheel bearings are sound, brakes are good etc. C3 stuff..I say go for it. Love my carbed setup as its familiar to me I know if something goes out I can fix it in minutes roadside and get home. Many will disagree but you have to drive what youre most comfortable with.

Suppose if electric stuff didnt bother me so much might have the opposite opinion. POst up that shark when you get it!
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Old Nov 10, 2010 | 04:15 PM
  #42  
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Currrently have a 86 c4. also had a 89 C4 for a number of years. Currently am looking for a 70, 71 big block C3 roadster preferably with a manual tranny.

I'm 67 and the breaking point for me is the DMV/inspection station gets all worked up in NC if the engine and drive train don't at least look like it has the stock components. Once past 35 years old they don't care about anything on a car. Mod to your hearts content.

I'm for simple. A carb and a distributor can be fixed alongside the road if need be.

Once that electronics starts to give you a hard time you better be able to troubleshoot it yourself or have a fat wallet.

Injectors, ECMs, computers, MAFs, wacko C-beams, independent rears, bah humbug.

As for c5 and later. Been tempted a few times to get one myself but I can't get the blond bimbo driver out of my mind or the gray haired old you know what not driving them over 35 MPH.

I'm of the drive it like you stole it mentality and if it breaks something just replace it with something stronger. The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches.
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Old Nov 10, 2010 | 08:22 PM
  #43  
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If you take road trips where you change elevation, efi will correct itself to keep your A/F ratio perfect. A carb can't do that.
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Old Nov 10, 2010 | 08:52 PM
  #44  
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DO BOTH! That being said , I have a C-3 and C-4, My brother has a C-5. If father time or back issues are ever a concern , I would recomend a C-5. Best of both worlds,Modern AND easy to get in and out. My 2 cents.
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 12:23 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DaveD
wacko C-beams, independent rears, bah humbug.

You prefer a welded in transmission crossmember like the early C3s have so you have to pull the body off the frame to replace a throw-out bearing?

Hate to break it to you, but the C3 has an independent rear also. You are going to have to go all the way back to the C1 if you want a solid axle Corvette.
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 11:50 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by DaveD
Currrently have a 86 c4. also had a 89 C4 for a number of years. Currently am looking for a 70, 71 big block C3 roadster preferably with a manual tranny.

I'm 67 and the breaking point for me is the DMV/inspection station gets all worked up in NC if the engine and drive train don't at least look like it has the stock components. Once past 35 years old they don't care about anything on a car. Mod to your hearts content.

I'm for simple. A carb and a distributor can be fixed alongside the road if need be.

Once that electronics starts to give you a hard time you better be able to troubleshoot it yourself or have a fat wallet.

Injectors, ECMs, computers, MAFs, wacko C-beams, independent rears, bah humbug.

As for c5 and later. Been tempted a few times to get one myself but I can't get the blond bimbo driver out of my mind or the gray haired old you know what not driving them over 35 MPH.

I'm of the drive it like you stole it mentality and if it breaks something just replace it with something stronger. The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches.
When I bought my 87 in May this year, I had the same concerns. I started this thread on 7/6/2010, read my post, it shares many of your concerns. My initial plan was to clean her up and flip her quickly to get back to C3's, carbs and distributers that I know so well.

Well, time passed and i got the 87 on the road. Goodness, I was impressed with its performance. I was not born knowing how to fix carbs and distributers, I had to learn how to do it. In my opinion, my 87 is a much better Vette than my C3's. I decided to learn the injection and engine management systems so I can do my own repairs. I bought the book, Corvette Fuel and Electronic Engine Management by Probst. My 87 is not getting flipped. I love this car. When I find the 'right'
70-73 C3, I will buy her, but not at the expense of getting rid of my C4.

Along with the wear and tear maintenance this winter, I am going to learn how the Injection and Electronic Engine Management works. My plan is to make the engine toss a code, then with my computer read the code tossed, use the FSM and trouble shoot the code back to what I did to cause the problem. By spring, I will feel comfortable. And if I ever have a problem I cant answer, I can ask here on the forum for help. So treat your self to learning how Corvette Fuel Injection and Engine Management works and enjoy a great C4.

8Valve
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 12:37 PM
  #47  
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If you are going to a C3, go that way because you like the way the car drives and the look. IMO, FI is feared by those who cannot and/or will not understand new technology. I'm sure that this conversation before when the first car came out too. More complex than the horse and buggy and when it finally dies, you can't simply sell it to the glue factory or cut it up for meat and feed it to the farm animals.

If someone is that paranoid, might I suggest buying a brand new car and selling it after the warranty is up. Also, move to a state that has good "lemon laws". That way, after so many issues, you can get a new car.

My biggest headache is mechanical right now so even if I dumped the EFI, the problem would remain until solved. No matter what the engine, it requires spark, fuel and air. It is still "suck, squeeze, bang, blow". EFI simply is more efficient at metering fuel and controlling spark. To me, this is like asking "should I move into a cave since it is solid rock and the roof won't come down and I am afraid that my house roof will collapse.".

With a good DVOM and scantool, you can tackle many problems in the electrical realm. The simplicity of old technology is bought at the price of efficiency. I would say that a properly tuned EFI car would make about the same power as a carbed car. However, it would be more efficient because it can control spark advance and fuel curves without resorting to a blunt instrument like the old school technology. I would find it hard to believe that you can fine tune the fuel and spark over the entire curve as well as EFI since you can change it several times a second and have it learn.
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 06:31 PM
  #48  
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Based on your original post and what it is you planned to do with your car, I would have suggested you sell your C4 and look at getting yourself into an early C5. If your C4 is in as nice a condition as you describe (and I have no reason to doubt that it isn't), then it should fetch a pretty penny, especially once all the interior work you're putting into it is done. Starting prices for C5s aren't too much more than what a solid, clean C4 can get and given the performance, comfort, build quality, and overall improvements between a C5 vs. a C4, I think it would have been the "smart" move.

However, being a C4 owner myself (1989 6-speed coupe) who has learned to do A LOT of work to his own car, I can tell you it won't take long to learn the ins and outs of your '87. The fuel injection system, while daunting to look at, is actually very simple in it's operation (in fact, I would feel very confident to say it's easier to disassemble and reassembly an entire TPI setup than it is to do the same of a four-barrel carb), and if a potential ECM failure scares you, then do what I do: buy a reconditioned ECM for $100 as a spare; carry it with you whenever you head out on a long trip.

The digit-dash is notorious for failures, but when it does fail it's often not instantaneous. There are tell-tail signs (dim lights, erratic behavior, etc...). If/when these signs start to show, consider removing and replacing it with a reconditioned unit. The re&re isn't very difficult, and it's not all that expensive either (at least, not as expensive as people think it is).

The only other potential problem area for C4s with respect to long road-trips is the alternator. Because GM ran these cars very hot (190deg t-stats are stock) for emissions purposes they tend to eat alternators often. I've already replaced mine once, and I would not be surprised to hear of C4s having gone through 3 to 4 alternators during their lifetimes. Like the ECM, buy one as a spare and carry it with you on a long road-trip. It's easy enough to change at the side of the road (I could do it easily if needed to) as long as you have a few simple tools.

On that note, I would also suggest you keep a few tools in the car whenever you go on one of these long road-trips. A serpentine belt removal tool is a must (I have a collapsable one from PowerBuilt that's very compact), along with an assortment of sockets (I find 1/4" drive is fine for quick road-side repairs) and an assortment of Torx bits/screwdrivers (I'm still amazed as to how many Torx fasteners are on these cars!). I also keep a paper clip in the arm rest so that I can diagnose any Check Engine Soon lights (it's easy to do) along with a small laminated list of what each code means I made years ago.

The bottom line is, C4s are like any other aging vehicle. They have their quirks and issues, but the longer you live with them the more you'll learn how to fiddle with them and keep them running properly. They aren't anywhere near as complicated as the newer cars (C5s and C6s), and they aren't really as complex as most people believe they are. And when you factor in that the ECM has a built-in "limp-home" home should any of the sensors under the hood fail, they are probably more reliable than some C3s.
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Old Nov 14, 2010 | 07:37 PM
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Just sold my 78 and got a nice 94 automatic coupe. No contest! The 94 is a superior car, hands down! Better acceleration, handling, sound, comfort, mileage, everything. Plus, I don't feel likes parts may fall off when I go over RR tracks.
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