this bugs me...
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: waterford mi
this bugs me...
Ok, supercharger, mitrous, turbocharger, ram air..all four do the same thing different ways...supply more oxygen to the engine..add fuel and vroom...Sooo. and this have bugged me for years (never got a good answer) Why not just inject oxygen... nitrous is 37% oxygen but oxygen is 100% oxygen.....jet it to 1/3rd nitrous and slam that in...any thoughts?
And before someone says it is too dangerous...ive seen viper and ls1 kits that slam nitrous/propane (propane expands 833 times when it burns...) I wouldn't want propane in my car if it cought on fire or got hit... Is it just me?
dex
And before someone says it is too dangerous...ive seen viper and ls1 kits that slam nitrous/propane (propane expands 833 times when it burns...) I wouldn't want propane in my car if it cought on fire or got hit... Is it just me?
dex
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Clayton, NC north carolina
Re: this bugs me... (dexion)
If a bottle of nitrous lets loose noting happens the oxygen doesent separate untll around 600' If an oxygen bottle lets loose and the gas comes in contact with any grease or oil it becomes a bomb! I sure wouldent like to be driving down the road with a bomb straped to my hinie. I'm an aircraft mechanic and have been working with oxygen for 8 years and I still dont like to fill bottles. I have a set of tools that I use for oxygen and oxygen only!!! Because It reacts violently when exposed to grease I make sure that my wrenches are diped i aolcohol and dryed before they touch the bottle. Now that you know how unstable oxygen is what do you think will happen when you expose it to a engine full of oil? BOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!
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From: waterford mi
Re: this bugs me... (ASRoff)
after all these years of my asking this question, no one ever said if o2 hits gas or oil it explodes. Is that with no catalist? heat. just if it comes into standing contact? If that is so then i can see why people don't use it. btw i still think propane is nuts too...
tks
dex
tks
dex
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From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: this bugs me... (dexion)
Not sure about the exact chemistry of this but I believe that Oxygen by itself is very reactive. It does not want to sit as a basic element and instead wants to mix with other material to form new chemicals.
I believe it is possible for Oxygen to spontaneously combust with gasoline or oil and catch on fire just using the heat in the air. Oxygen also wants to react with metals and start rapid corrosion, i.e Iron blocks turn to rust, aluminum heads oxydize, corrosion starts on the inside of the motor.
In the end it is safer to transport nitrous oxide then bare oxygen.
I believe it is possible for Oxygen to spontaneously combust with gasoline or oil and catch on fire just using the heat in the air. Oxygen also wants to react with metals and start rapid corrosion, i.e Iron blocks turn to rust, aluminum heads oxydize, corrosion starts on the inside of the motor.
In the end it is safer to transport nitrous oxide then bare oxygen.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Staten Island NY
Re: this bugs me... (dexion)
You cant just inject O2, it has to be introduced into the combustion chamber in the correct proportion with the the fuel. It would be very difficult to inject pressurized O2 in the correct amount with the available fuel, also as air already has O2 in it, why just not pressurize air instead of having to carry a large bottle of O2 in your car.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
Re: this bugs me... (ASRoff)
pure 02 would be difficult to do. remember air is not pure 02.
nitrous combinations have been sorted out much better. a pure 02 could work but you are on your own figuring out how to not make a very expensive blow torch for your pistons. I thought of this too but have never gotten any support to try it (not on my nickel either)
it's getting the air/fuel ratio correct and pure 02 would make this tough to figure out, and 02 is very flammable. but yet, it sure could work.
just gotta get LOTS of fuel to it to make the ratio correct.
any engineers out there???
nitrous combinations have been sorted out much better. a pure 02 could work but you are on your own figuring out how to not make a very expensive blow torch for your pistons. I thought of this too but have never gotten any support to try it (not on my nickel either)
it's getting the air/fuel ratio correct and pure 02 would make this tough to figure out, and 02 is very flammable. but yet, it sure could work.
just gotta get LOTS of fuel to it to make the ratio correct.
any engineers out there???
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From: waterford mi
Re: this bugs me... (Rkreigh)
/me confused
oxygen is a noble gas hence it is happy to sit there and be oxygen.
oxygen is NOT flamable at all. It is what is required to make a fuel burn.
so if there were a fuel you would get greater faster combustion with more oxygen introduced into the mix.
I must be off my tree...add any even a small about of oxygen to a combustion mix the computer would pic up a small change in o2 count and richen the mixture....going from 10000 feet above sea level and down to sea level for instance.....
As for the correct mix it shouldn't be to hard to get average numbers of sea level for o2 count in air...take a tank of o2 find out its flo numbers at say whatever psi and regulate it to add x amount of o2 per cubic foot....10% of the mean o2 content in air at sea level say plus 10% additional fuel from the injectors= what 35 horse at the fly... seems straight foward..
dono...I have a company car... :)
dex
oxygen is a noble gas hence it is happy to sit there and be oxygen.
oxygen is NOT flamable at all. It is what is required to make a fuel burn.
so if there were a fuel you would get greater faster combustion with more oxygen introduced into the mix.
I must be off my tree...add any even a small about of oxygen to a combustion mix the computer would pic up a small change in o2 count and richen the mixture....going from 10000 feet above sea level and down to sea level for instance.....
As for the correct mix it shouldn't be to hard to get average numbers of sea level for o2 count in air...take a tank of o2 find out its flo numbers at say whatever psi and regulate it to add x amount of o2 per cubic foot....10% of the mean o2 content in air at sea level say plus 10% additional fuel from the injectors= what 35 horse at the fly... seems straight foward..
dono...I have a company car... :)
dex
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Drifting
Joined: May 2001
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From: Brandywine, Chester and Ridley Valleys Pennsylvania
Re: this bugs me... (dexion)
Oxygen isn't a noble gas. It loves to react (*OX*idize) with almost anything it comes in contact with. The only "common" element that's more apt to react is Flourine.
Ever run an Oxy-Acetylene torch? Just burn the acetylene and you're talking a couple hundred degree flame, lots of snakes/soot, no great shakes... Add some oxygen to the mix, and you're talking *Blowtorch*.
Edit- remember the 02 sensor measures exhaust gases. If you could safely introduce Oxygen to the combustion chamber, so long as you're running near stoich, the 02 sensor would be none the wiser.
[Modified by TrueBlue ChevyDude, 10:53 AM 4/1/2002]
Ever run an Oxy-Acetylene torch? Just burn the acetylene and you're talking a couple hundred degree flame, lots of snakes/soot, no great shakes... Add some oxygen to the mix, and you're talking *Blowtorch*.
Edit- remember the 02 sensor measures exhaust gases. If you could safely introduce Oxygen to the combustion chamber, so long as you're running near stoich, the 02 sensor would be none the wiser.
[Modified by TrueBlue ChevyDude, 10:53 AM 4/1/2002]
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From: College Station Tx
Re: this bugs me... (TrueBlue ChevyDude)
Yep, TrueBlue ChevyDude covered most of it. Oxygen is 2 electrons (and 2 protons) short of being a noble gas - as pointed above it is very reactive.
No, it is not flammable itself, but will react with many other substances to create a quite flammable situation.
Oxygen in the chamber would be analgous to a blow torch, again, as pointed out above. You would quickly melt a hole in your pistons.
It is not just about getting oxygen in the chamber (in that respect pure oxygen is an excellent choice) but getting it in there in a controllable and usefull manner.
Nitrous Oxide is N2O - it is a has more oxygen by mass than normal air, so increases the oxygen content of the cylinder. It also has a lower flame temp than pure oxygen, as well as flame speed - allowing for a more controllable and usefull burn. Additionally the N2 liberated through the reduction of N2O is a very inert gas, and to a certain extent acts as a buffer to reduce the instantaneous shocks as well as peak temps experienced by the pistons.
No, it is not flammable itself, but will react with many other substances to create a quite flammable situation.
Oxygen in the chamber would be analgous to a blow torch, again, as pointed out above. You would quickly melt a hole in your pistons.
It is not just about getting oxygen in the chamber (in that respect pure oxygen is an excellent choice) but getting it in there in a controllable and usefull manner.
Nitrous Oxide is N2O - it is a has more oxygen by mass than normal air, so increases the oxygen content of the cylinder. It also has a lower flame temp than pure oxygen, as well as flame speed - allowing for a more controllable and usefull burn. Additionally the N2 liberated through the reduction of N2O is a very inert gas, and to a certain extent acts as a buffer to reduce the instantaneous shocks as well as peak temps experienced by the pistons.