ARP Head bolts
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
ARP Head bolts
Hi,
just a quick question as I am in the middle of ordering parts for my headgasket job:
Can I use normal thread sealer for the ARP-134-3601
head bolts?
I can´t order their ARP sealer/lube as I am in Germany and it is not available here....
Otherwise I have to use the Felpro bolts # ES72856 , but I assume they are TTY.
I can get most of the Loctite products overhere and they have a thread sealer....would that be OK for ARP bolts?
Best regards
Benjamin
just a quick question as I am in the middle of ordering parts for my headgasket job:
Can I use normal thread sealer for the ARP-134-3601
head bolts?
I can´t order their ARP sealer/lube as I am in Germany and it is not available here....
Otherwise I have to use the Felpro bolts # ES72856 , but I assume they are TTY.
I can get most of the Loctite products overhere and they have a thread sealer....would that be OK for ARP bolts?
Best regards
Benjamin
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,518
Likes: 19
Hi,
just a quick question as I am in the middle of ordering parts for my headgasket job:
Can I use normal thread sealer for the ARP-134-3601
head bolts?
I can´t order their ARP sealer/lube as I am in Germany and it is not available here....
Otherwise I have to use the Felpro bolts # ES72856 , but I assume they are TTY.
I can get most of the Loctite products overhere and they have a thread sealer....would that be OK for ARP bolts?
Best regards
Benjamin
just a quick question as I am in the middle of ordering parts for my headgasket job:
Can I use normal thread sealer for the ARP-134-3601
head bolts?
I can´t order their ARP sealer/lube as I am in Germany and it is not available here....
Otherwise I have to use the Felpro bolts # ES72856 , but I assume they are TTY.
I can get most of the Loctite products overhere and they have a thread sealer....would that be OK for ARP bolts?
Best regards
Benjamin
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
And please explain "rolling in", sorry, might be a dumb question, but I want to do it right the first time.
I will order the ARP bolts, use thread sealant, and lubricate the washers/bolt heads with some oil.
Does this sound right?
I will order the ARP bolts, use thread sealant, and lubricate the washers/bolt heads with some oil.
Does this sound right?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
ARP strongly recommends using there thread lube but the last set I installed came with instructions spelling out an option of using 30w engine oil. Be aware, though, that the torque setting is different when using engine oil.
I won't post a torque number here because your head bolts may be different from the ones I used and the torque spec could be different. You should be able to find more detailed info on ARP's site.
"Rolling in", as I use it, means being sure to get the lube well up into the threads on the bolts and not just a surface coating. I use old toothbrushes and my fingers to put oil/sealant/etc. on all my gears and threads.
I agree, too, that any quality thread sealant will work, it's the lube under the bolt head and washer that's the critical part to achieve the correct clamping force.
Speaking of washers, make sure you correctly install them on the bolt. One side of the washer is beveled and THAT SIDE goes toward the head of the bolt. That's IMPORTANT!
Jake
I won't post a torque number here because your head bolts may be different from the ones I used and the torque spec could be different. You should be able to find more detailed info on ARP's site.
"Rolling in", as I use it, means being sure to get the lube well up into the threads on the bolts and not just a surface coating. I use old toothbrushes and my fingers to put oil/sealant/etc. on all my gears and threads.
I agree, too, that any quality thread sealant will work, it's the lube under the bolt head and washer that's the critical part to achieve the correct clamping force.
Speaking of washers, make sure you correctly install them on the bolt. One side of the washer is beveled and THAT SIDE goes toward the head of the bolt. That's IMPORTANT!
Jake
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Read up. Interesting, if you are an info geek like me.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
Ok thanks so far. I just ordered the bolts.
I will read as much as I can before installing them.
As I understand, rolling in means torquing the bolts to specs, loosen, and redo. I assume all this with the sealant and headgasket already in place and then apply the final torque.
I will have an eye on the washers to face them correctly!
I will read as much as I can before installing them.
As I understand, rolling in means torquing the bolts to specs, loosen, and redo. I assume all this with the sealant and headgasket already in place and then apply the final torque.
I will have an eye on the washers to face them correctly!
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
A I mentioned, check ARP's website for specifics. Rolling in involves multiple tightening and loosening to "break in" the bolts, and reduce friction to give accurate torque readings. It is a topic of debate here in recent years, and NOT doing it cost me a motor once upon a time.
Read up. Interesting, if you are an info geek like me.
Read up. Interesting, if you are an info geek like me.
I know what you mean, Pete, about the debate on doing that. I recall some years ago (2002?) ARP was very specific about torquing, loosening, re-torquing them many times before making the final torque. I was building a Mini-Ram 434 for a friend and the ARP head bolts we were using was quite specific on doing that.
Then the controversy began and - being an avid reader like you - I began reading all sorts of articles disagreeing with that recommended procedure and the reasons not to do it. How it does "this" and does "that" - all negative.
The last set of new ARPs I installed - last summer - made no mention of doing that so I didn't. Now I see CompCams has introduced a new lubricate that's advertised to eliminate any need to torque/loosen/re-torque any bolt. It's supposed to be the "Hot Setup" and I plan on giving it a try when I begin the build of my son's new 415 next month.
I've taken the position that unless ARP says for me to do it, I don't.
Jake
Race Director
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Save an old gasket, roll the threads with it in place, then swap out the gasket with the new one. In my opinion, it doesn't much matter on a head bolt. On a rod bolt, or a main bolt, it will change the dimension of the hole, therefore the bearing clearance.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
OK, thanks .I will keep this in mind.
I ordered the following parts now:
-HS7733PT9 Headgasket set, new oil pressure sendung unit (mine reads to high)
-LT4 Springs, keepers, retainers, shims/seats,
-ARP-134-3601 Head bolts set,
-SCP1036BL Scorpion narrow body style self aligning 1.6 RR,
Today I will start to disassemble the engine.
I ordered the following parts now:
-HS7733PT9 Headgasket set, new oil pressure sendung unit (mine reads to high)
-LT4 Springs, keepers, retainers, shims/seats,
-ARP-134-3601 Head bolts set,
-SCP1036BL Scorpion narrow body style self aligning 1.6 RR,
Today I will start to disassemble the engine.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
So far so good....I just removed the driver side head and of course it´s a leak on no 7 cylinder....surprise surprise....
I already assumed this when I removed the spark plugs and found deposits on no7 plug.
I will check or have the heads checked tomorrow. In the meantime I clean all parts as good as I can, especiallly the intake manifold really needs it.
I Hope to get the parts by wednesday and with all going straight I will have the car back on the road by thursday with new springs and 1.6 rollers.
I made and will make some pics of the important steps and post them later on.
I already assumed this when I removed the spark plugs and found deposits on no7 plug.
I will check or have the heads checked tomorrow. In the meantime I clean all parts as good as I can, especiallly the intake manifold really needs it.
I Hope to get the parts by wednesday and with all going straight I will have the car back on the road by thursday with new springs and 1.6 rollers.
I made and will make some pics of the important steps and post them later on.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 508
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From: N.W. CT
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
As I ordered the ARP bolts, they are not TTY. I just have to keep the rolling in procedurer for the bolts.
I am still a little uncertain on retorquing or not, I do not want to break the sealant on the bolts therefore I am so far on the non-retorque side.
But suggestions always welcome.
I am still a little uncertain on retorquing or not, I do not want to break the sealant on the bolts therefore I am so far on the non-retorque side.
But suggestions always welcome.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 305
Likes: 2
From: Epfenbach BW
UPDATE:
The heads will be done by monday, they get checked, LT4 springs installed and a valve job done.
In the meantime I cleaned the deck of the block. I used 180 grit sand paper and stainless steel wool, the one you would use for kitchenware. I was very careful to keep dirt out of the cylinder bores.
For the ARP bolts I made a "prestretching/ rolling in tool" which basically consists of a piece of metal with threads and a corresponding bar which simulates the different heights of the block.
So I can roll in the bolts while waiting for the heads to be done.
I think tuesday evening it may be running again....
The heads will be done by monday, they get checked, LT4 springs installed and a valve job done.
In the meantime I cleaned the deck of the block. I used 180 grit sand paper and stainless steel wool, the one you would use for kitchenware. I was very careful to keep dirt out of the cylinder bores.
For the ARP bolts I made a "prestretching/ rolling in tool" which basically consists of a piece of metal with threads and a corresponding bar which simulates the different heights of the block.
So I can roll in the bolts while waiting for the heads to be done.
I think tuesday evening it may be running again....