You dont say??? Well I rekkon we's sorry,,,, us moonshiners use a lot of popcorn sutton's fuel. Them ATF fellers says its a clean fuel though..?. ... always chasing dady to get some... Yep,,,Always made junior mad if you ax me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b5mW2QF6H4
Mama said ...We didn't know we were leading the green revolution... we were green before green caught on with the pretty boyz in town...."I recon".. "yep"
and by the way..
We ain't really sure if we know what a smog test is....???? Sniffing exaust is what you hoped your mother-in-law did.. seems sorta californish to us... you know with all them thare fancy lights an all...
Dont tell them law dogs in Noth-Caroliner we using big cams downtown on saturdee nights if you get our drift. Yep..
Yep... sorry.

 

Thanks for this information, everyone missed it, got almost everything I need or want, it even has an EO number for calif smog, 114 LSA, easier ramps, lower lifts, perfect duration.

Who turned you on to this? and did you try something else before?

I noticed from driving my 383 Vette for over 2 years, reving it to 6,000+ rpm is simply too much winding, I like to get things done in the first 4,000. we'll see.

do I have to change the oil after the cam change and do they have to keep the push rod in the same place and do they need to put assembly lube on the cam?

 

The only person who missed what you were asking was moonshine boy.

 

that was a nice piece of work Gregg, I tried to follow it, but couldn't I think Ebonics is easier to understand, says much about not dating your mother or sister or both after the farm chores...

 

Dumb like a Fox.
Just trying to put some levity into it.
It seemed you were asking questions that you already knew the answer to.... and thats OK. ..! I like the focus and passion.
It reminds me of the guys I meet at the minature aircraft field who don't know I have a pilots lic. the "expert" conversation is impressive...if you were a blind man.. or... a time in Wy,, with a few friends that included Andy Petree... and this guy at our dinner table tried to tell Andy with all conviction he "Flat footed" Charlotte in a Cup car.... now that was funny.... until he figured out who Andy was... and now for the rest of the story... it was in a Petty driving school car... Lets just say they are a little off the Sunday pace.
But you should really check out the link...Life is full of interesting facts.
Oh, a tree with no branches does grow tall!

 

wtf?

 

i meant the moonshine thing, not you.... was a piece of work, you have great ideas and educated in this subject.

 

Steve bought a set of heads from me and I talked to him about his engine configuration.

 

Interesting. That means your comment, which began addressed to me, should have used the phrase "his" mother, not "your" mother. (That's the second time in 2 weeks you've confused me in a similar manner. Guess I'm slow.)

I doubt "moonshiner" read you wanted a smaller cam before he posted for you to buy a bigger one. Following that up with moonshine talk (and youtube) seems like a reference to the earliest need for fast cars. In the prohibition era, moonshiners HAD to be faster than the police to keep from getting arrested. Since it was the early days of the automobile, racers often went to the moonshiners for advice.

The was a recent documentary on TV about this.

[Semi-] funny post and story -- but no practical value for this topic.

 

ah! so.... you were behind this... that cam is almost the same as the one you put in on Craigs recent build and even the build before that had something similar.... why the split duration? 10 degree even for the AFR with good exhausting. jeremy at AFR says single pattern is no problems.

 

Sorry, my grammar, I did not learn in school...if we were sitting face to face and talking the context would define the meaning.

You posted, a comment about moonshining, and right after that I compared it to Ebonics as the grammar in both those colloquialisms are similar. So now I have a reference point.

When I wrote "you" instead of his, I did not want to accuse any particular person, (bad taste), I used "you", as a stand in for "one" which I think in English grammar is acceptable albeit nebulous.

The vague nature of this sentence construction resulted in the misunderstanding only because this is the internet and not vis-s vis.

yes I am aware of the moonshiners hot rodding cars to get away in the day, for the good guys the P71 option for the Ford Crown Vic is as wild as they have gotten, at the end of the day private cars will always out run public servant cars.

there more to just speed in a chase anymore these days, camera, PIT, traffic, you name a few....

 

Slick,

I think you should consider the cost of replacing springs vs the cost of replacing a cam. You can install several sets of springs for the cost of one cam swap (unless you've learned how to do your own work).

I think the cam Stevie is using is a great choice. The lobes are milder, the duration is less, and there is more overlap. All of these address what you might have done at the beginning of your project.

Instead, you built a targeted application of a cam and heads that pull to 6500. You built an application designed to make it's best power in the upper rpms. Both the cam AND the heads you chose ignore the lowest rpm performance. I think you have to live with that.

By swapping to his cam, (Brian is right) you won't notice THAT much difference -- especially if you're looking at something like the 220/230 cam Steve's has. You'll probably shift your powerband down potentially 500rpms. Would you be surprised if, at any given rpm, the overall power change may be less than 15 ft/lbs (or HP)? That's hard for most people to FEEL. I believe that's why Brian said you'll end up disappointed. OTOH, a 214 or 219 single patter cam may be sufficiently smaller where you might feel the difference.

FWIW, I chose the 195s to get higher port velocity out of a larger head. (My understanding is the AFR195 is the head that comes the closest.) Combined with my 214 cam and a superram-like intake, my goal was to get near factory manners with maximum mid-range performance. The result still requires an additional 100rpms at idle to compensate. (That's either a result of the bigger overlap [than stock] or the larger intake port [than stock].) For someone who swapped to an automatic, you wouldn't even notice the issue. If you did, just raise the idle a hair, it should want to pull out of the gate. You may be able to throw more low-rpm timing at it too. With the 220/230 cam, I can't imagine you'd see much improvement in MPG. You driving habits would affect it more!

While I see you like to investigate possibilities, you're doing too much after-the-fact. You're build is complete. Swapping cams ALONE probably won't make you jump with joy. 180's paired with a cam in the teens would make a difference. It's what most of us would recommend to a guy who said he wanted to make power by 4k rpms. If you swap to a FIRST intake, you'll get more torque [lower] if that's what you want. I also think you'd feel more of a difference. Think this over VERY carefully. Make sure your springs are really bad and don't put the cart before the horse.

I don't know if you ever figured it out, but you swapped to an automatic because you weren't happy with a ZF. IMO, the problem was you paired an unsprung clutch with a SMF. That by itself was ill-informed...badly ill-informed.

I suggest learning more about cams before deciding you need a new one. I guarantee 95% of builders would choose a cam of similar duration (to your cam) for a 383. If you still want to change, try 1.5 rockers first. People are always looking to buy 1.6 rockers.

 

This is where I started 1.5 rockers..., member that thread? everyone says I won't see a difference, then the idea of Rhoads lifters came in the picture and Jeremy at AFR says the ramp rates are still the same and the springs still suffer the same, I like this idea, without digging what real changes to the cam will it have? and ya know the cam was made to run with a 1.6 ratio, I called competition cam for this one.

 

I've considered the same argument. While I agree the ramp rate on the cam can't change, the amount of lift can. Ramp rate (and nose shape) affects control "over the nose". That's where the valves can jump off the cam and "float".

However, the rocker ratio amplifies that shape by 1.5 or 1.6 times. There will be more acceleration with the higher rocker ratio. More importanly, the spring compresses more. While I'm no expert, I'd bet that the AMOUNT of spring compression is more responsible for wear rates than speed of compression. (Think about a springs on a milder cam running at 6k rpms for 100k miles).

I don't always agree with Jeremy. I think lowering your ratio would help the springs last longer. I wouldn't be surprised it it doubled expectancy.

One other thing to consider is my broken spring suggestion (and when your heads were purchased). IIRC, AFR changed spring vendors about 2yrs ago. It could be your heads included the prior vendors springs -- which may have their issues. (Don't quote me on this though...A lot has happened in 2 years. I might not remember correctly.)

Comp relayed the same argument to me. They said not to use 1.5's with an XFI cam since they were engineered to work with the higher ratio. That seems hard to believe, but I can't refute it. It might be your best supporting argument for the cam swap -- if/when you determine worn springs that are part of a good batch.

 

I haven't joined in on this conversation bacause when I ran my 383 I used a Crane bumpstick that is no longer available but apparently similar to the CompCams stick 220/230. I was running 10.5 compression with Holley 20 degree heads (made by Brodix at the time). The cam I used was also 220/230 but had higher lift, around .570 @ .050 than the Comp Cams stick. The heads I was running, and am currently running on my 406 are really good flowing heads. I found by running 1.6 on the intake and 1.5 on the exhaust, the split duration of the camshaft worked well with this combination and pulled well to 62-6300 with a SuperRam intake.

 

I know people run stock SR's and ported SR's. Will a ported SR mimic a cam change? are there any downsides to radically gouging metal from the SR? is yours ported to achieve those rpm levels?


mine is stock and it goes there rather readily, it's nothing to it, it hits the fuel cutoff abruptly , set at 6300,(since my lame atari dash tach is 1500 rpm behind in it reporting duty)

another reason I fear to rev it hard, I sold the shift light when I swapped to the automatic.

I can't quantify my combo, but the AFR's are supposedly at the time, were some high tech pieces and so was the xfi cam lobes, perhaps the combination cannot be figured on paper, but only where rubber meets the asphalt.

 

I had my SuperRam base and runners Extrude Honed years ago and it really opened it up internally. I am running it on my 406 with a 230-240 cam and it goes through the traps at 6600 @ 127. I think these SuperRams can be made to breathe really well and still provide good low-midrange torque.

 

who cares if it's 1.5 or 1.6 but me

 

AFR has a good enough exhaust port it opens up the option of using a single pattern cam. So really a single or dual pattern cam will work well with those heads. But there are more options for dual pattern cams out there if you use something off the shelf.

 

Wow Greg, you know a lot about cams. How many engines have you put together?