Bad starter, right? (video)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Macedon (near Rochester) NY
Bad starter, right? (video)
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/k...t=starter2.mp4
Finally got the engine in the car and ready to run, but instead of running this is what it does. It's a delco starter, the small kind.
Battery is charged. Also tried setting my charger to jump start for more power, no better.
Does this whether the distributor is plugged in or not.
The short block is fairly new and is still a bit tough to turn, but before I put in the spark plugs I tried it and it spun freely. Also I could see spark jumping from the distributor to the plenum (had forgotten to unplug). So seems like with the plugs in the compression is too high for it? It has 113s and +5 flat tops, compression should be about 10.4.
It does get stuck sometimes. Not on the flex plate, just stuck out. One time it got stuck in too. There are no shims on it now, but it did the same thing no matter how many. Theres enough space to fit a paper clip so it's not binding. Seems to be jumping gears inside the starter rather than against the flexplate.
Just need to confirm before I spend a hundred bucks.
Finally got the engine in the car and ready to run, but instead of running this is what it does. It's a delco starter, the small kind.
Battery is charged. Also tried setting my charger to jump start for more power, no better.
Does this whether the distributor is plugged in or not.
The short block is fairly new and is still a bit tough to turn, but before I put in the spark plugs I tried it and it spun freely. Also I could see spark jumping from the distributor to the plenum (had forgotten to unplug). So seems like with the plugs in the compression is too high for it? It has 113s and +5 flat tops, compression should be about 10.4.
It does get stuck sometimes. Not on the flex plate, just stuck out. One time it got stuck in too. There are no shims on it now, but it did the same thing no matter how many. Theres enough space to fit a paper clip so it's not binding. Seems to be jumping gears inside the starter rather than against the flexplate.
Just need to confirm before I spend a hundred bucks.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 14,924
Likes: 9
From: Merritt Ils Fl
It acts like the contacts inside the starter are bad. I base that on the old style solenoids not mini starters. If it were mine I would remove the started, take it apart, clean it up and try again. Can't cost you more than a couple of hours. BTW I doubt you can find a replacement for $100.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
This is an automatic....right?
It looks like you forgot to bolt the flex plate to the converter
. I think this is where you are getting some of your noise...metal on metal.
And it looks like starter problems. Perhaps consider a mini-starter to replace the full sized unit. Easier to get in and out.
It looks like you forgot to bolt the flex plate to the converter
. I think this is where you are getting some of your noise...metal on metal.And it looks like starter problems. Perhaps consider a mini-starter to replace the full sized unit. Easier to get in and out.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,272
Likes: 17
I vote, your starter solonoid has some burned spots on the disk, and the current isnt holding it because of it. we used to disassemble them and turn it around so it would make good contact, you can get those mini starters for as low as $70 and up, Its also bouncing on the flex gears , so I'd bet that nose bushing is wobbling a bit. based on your torque converter not spinning , I'd say the previous poster is right also.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Kaneohe Hi
If you have 58cc heads and +5 dome flat tops tour CR will ne way more than 10.5:1 more like 12+:1. Youll need a gear drive starter. And youll need a 240+ @.050 cam. Looks like the cylinder pressure is building and the starter dont habe enough man to turn it over and by your above mentioned parts choice I would not doubt this to be the case. Do you have part numbers for your build? Heads, pistons, cam, rods, deck hight? Or thd specs?
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
From: Kaneohe Hi
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/k...t=starter2.mp4
Finally got the engine in the car and ready to run, but instead of running this is what it does. It's a delco starter, the small kind.
Battery is charged. Also tried setting my charger to jump start for more power, no better.
Does this whether the distributor is plugged in or not.
The short block is fairly new and is still a bit tough to turn, but before I put in the spark plugs I tried it and it spun freely. Also I could see spark jumping from the distributor to the plenum (had forgotten to unplug). So seems like with the plugs in the compression is too high for it? It has 113s and +5 flat tops, compression should be about 10.4.
It does get stuck sometimes. Not on the flex plate, just stuck out. One time it got stuck in too. There are no shims on it now, but it did the same thing no matter how many. Theres enough space to fit a paper clip so it's not binding. Seems to be jumping gears inside the starter rather than against the flexplate.
Just need to confirm before I spend a hundred bucks.
Finally got the engine in the car and ready to run, but instead of running this is what it does. It's a delco starter, the small kind.
Battery is charged. Also tried setting my charger to jump start for more power, no better.
Does this whether the distributor is plugged in or not.
The short block is fairly new and is still a bit tough to turn, but before I put in the spark plugs I tried it and it spun freely. Also I could see spark jumping from the distributor to the plenum (had forgotten to unplug). So seems like with the plugs in the compression is too high for it? It has 113s and +5 flat tops, compression should be about 10.4.
It does get stuck sometimes. Not on the flex plate, just stuck out. One time it got stuck in too. There are no shims on it now, but it did the same thing no matter how many. Theres enough space to fit a paper clip so it's not binding. Seems to be jumping gears inside the starter rather than against the flexplate.
Just need to confirm before I spend a hundred bucks.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 14,924
Likes: 9
From: Merritt Ils Fl
This is an automatic....right?
It looks like you forgot to bolt the flex plate to the converter. I think this is where you are getting some of your noise...metal on metal.
And it looks like starter problems. Perhaps consider a mini-starter to replace the full sized unit. Easier to get in and out.
It looks like you forgot to bolt the flex plate to the converter
. I think this is where you are getting some of your noise...metal on metal.And it looks like starter problems. Perhaps consider a mini-starter to replace the full sized unit. Easier to get in and out.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Macedon (near Rochester) NY
I know the tc isnt bolted on yet, still waiting for the bolts in the mail. They're pushed apart, no chance they'll touch, but is it still that bad to run it for a few seconds?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Macedon (near Rochester) NY
Decided to get tc bolts instead of waiting for the ones I ordered with the rest of my parts. Cheap enough.
Got another starter. Now I know the car does run. When it will actually start. Really struggles to crank, slightly better with the dist unplugged, but still slow. Battery is fully charged but maybe it's still bad. And maybe the cheap reman full size starter I got isnt up to the task either (though one of those fifty dollar ones worked just fine with the same short block in my 85 bird).
I have a feeling both the battery and starter were bad. The car was registered last fall, but no proving when it was last actually driven or when those were replaced. Looks like I'm having the battery tested after dinner.
Got another starter. Now I know the car does run. When it will actually start. Really struggles to crank, slightly better with the dist unplugged, but still slow. Battery is fully charged but maybe it's still bad. And maybe the cheap reman full size starter I got isnt up to the task either (though one of those fifty dollar ones worked just fine with the same short block in my 85 bird).
I have a feeling both the battery and starter were bad. The car was registered last fall, but no proving when it was last actually driven or when those were replaced. Looks like I'm having the battery tested after dinner.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,306
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From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Macedon (near Rochester) NY
650cca battery, charged until the light went green, but tested only 340 at 12.47v. Told it was still good but needed a charge, well it was charged, so figured its just bad despite what the machine said.
Got a Gold 700 battery. Car cranked much better with distributor unplugged, still sucked with it connected. Managed to get it started long enough to check timing, noticed it was like 40+ btdc, guess I had my wires starting point wrong. Was thinking number one was next to the connector, forgot its the one forward of that. Now it runs beautifully. Still cranks a little slower than I'd like though.
All good, too bad it cost another 160 I wasnt expecting.
Got a Gold 700 battery. Car cranked much better with distributor unplugged, still sucked with it connected. Managed to get it started long enough to check timing, noticed it was like 40+ btdc, guess I had my wires starting point wrong. Was thinking number one was next to the connector, forgot its the one forward of that. Now it runs beautifully. Still cranks a little slower than I'd like though.
All good, too bad it cost another 160 I wasnt expecting.
