85 Engine upgrade (pictorial)
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Adelaide South Australia
85 Engine upgrade (pictorial)
Hi Guys, just started my engine upgrade (its winter here in Australia) and will share some pictures as I go along coz I know everyone likes pics and I will probably ask some questions along the way.
First thing I did was buy some secondhand AFR 190 heads, and I have made my first mistake, guy said they were ported on the inlets but would fit my application, well after the long trip from Ohio turns out they are heavily modified to suit a .700 plus cam, got them flowed and no way are they any good for a 5,500 rpm tpi engine.
in this photo you can see the patching on the intake walls due to the clearancing for the pushrods (something else the seller didnt disclose !)
so they are back on fleabay, except this time I have been a bit more honest in my description.
next installment is camshaft installment !
First thing I did was buy some secondhand AFR 190 heads, and I have made my first mistake, guy said they were ported on the inlets but would fit my application, well after the long trip from Ohio turns out they are heavily modified to suit a .700 plus cam, got them flowed and no way are they any good for a 5,500 rpm tpi engine.
in this photo you can see the patching on the intake walls due to the clearancing for the pushrods (something else the seller didnt disclose !)
so they are back on fleabay, except this time I have been a bit more honest in my description.
next installment is camshaft installment !
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
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From: Adelaide South Australia
next on the agenda is cam change,
after much reading on the forum I have gone with the Lunati voodoo 60102, which gives .500/.520 with 1.6 rockers, getting the cam and lifter set, Lunati double roller timing set and Summit harmonic balancer
I usually do the work on the car myself but couldnt see me rolling around on the garage floor in the cold weather doing this job so its going to my mates workshop and I will gladly pay for this one, the only stipulation is that I take everything off and out the way before it goes, so injection is off, distributor, inlet manifold, a/c bracket, water pump, alternator, idler pulleys, fan and radiator.
after much reading on the forum I have gone with the Lunati voodoo 60102, which gives .500/.520 with 1.6 rockers, getting the cam and lifter set, Lunati double roller timing set and Summit harmonic balancer
I usually do the work on the car myself but couldnt see me rolling around on the garage floor in the cold weather doing this job so its going to my mates workshop and I will gladly pay for this one, the only stipulation is that I take everything off and out the way before it goes, so injection is off, distributor, inlet manifold, a/c bracket, water pump, alternator, idler pulleys, fan and radiator.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Maybe its the angle of the pic but appears like they didnt leave much room for the intake gasket to seal on the bottom.
180 afr head would work great for you.
Youll like that cam, makes real good torque everywhere.
180 afr head would work great for you.
Youll like that cam, makes real good torque everywhere.
Last edited by cv67; Jul 22, 2011 at 01:54 AM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
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From: Adelaide South Australia
been looking at some heads from Summit,
Edelbrock 185cc 64cc chamber, all CNC'd, complete $930 pair,
Trickflow 195cc 62cc chamber, $1,050 pair,
Brodix 180cc 64cc, $1,100 pair,
What do you guys think of those options, keeping in mind budget and shipping costs to oz, those cnc'd Edelbrocks look like pretty good value ?
Hi Gerard, Im hoping they are sold by Friday, on ebay with 29 watchers so far, learnt a lesson there !
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
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From: Adelaide South Australia
ok, the car is back with the new cam etc installed,
just for info the engine mounts were undone, 1" x 2" pieces of wood jammed in between block and engine mount and that gave just the right amound of angle to get the balancer tool in and the camshaft etc out.
next job, the SLP runners are here,
they dont look a whole lot different inside in the standard form compared to standard runners, I will take some measurements,
SLP top 41mm diameter, Standard runner top 38mm
SLP bottom 41mm , Standard runner 39mm,
the SLP's need a bit of work to justify the money spent, greggpen has sent me photos of his porting on SLP's and I will use them as a guide to start siameseing the top runners.
there is a lot of thickness in the SLP alloy to allow for a fair bit of porting.
First bit of siamese porting on the left runners,
just for info the engine mounts were undone, 1" x 2" pieces of wood jammed in between block and engine mount and that gave just the right amound of angle to get the balancer tool in and the camshaft etc out.
next job, the SLP runners are here,
they dont look a whole lot different inside in the standard form compared to standard runners, I will take some measurements,
SLP top 41mm diameter, Standard runner top 38mm
SLP bottom 41mm , Standard runner 39mm,
the SLP's need a bit of work to justify the money spent, greggpen has sent me photos of his porting on SLP's and I will use them as a guide to start siameseing the top runners.
there is a lot of thickness in the SLP alloy to allow for a fair bit of porting.
First bit of siamese porting on the left runners,
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 2
From: Perth Western Australia
St. Jude Donor '10
Good to see another aussie doing a c4 engine build.
Hope you find a good set of heads. My new AFR 195s milled to 60cc are sitting here waiting to go on as soon as I get the pistons back in. Jim and Rick do a great deal on them as you probably know.
Good luck.
Hope you find a good set of heads. My new AFR 195s milled to 60cc are sitting here waiting to go on as soon as I get the pistons back in. Jim and Rick do a great deal on them as you probably know.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Adelaide South Australia
Hi Lemme, I was wondering how your build was going,
How much did you pay for the AFR's ?
I looked up the flow figures on the heads I was looking at on Summit, the Edelbrock 185's flow better than the Brodix 180 and better than the Trickflow 195 (on the exhaust only) and they only cost $930us complete a pair !
How much did you pay for the AFR's ?
I looked up the flow figures on the heads I was looking at on Summit, the Edelbrock 185's flow better than the Brodix 180 and better than the Trickflow 195 (on the exhaust only) and they only cost $930us complete a pair !
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,341
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From: Perth Western Australia
St. Jude Donor '10
The base cost was about $1300. By the time I added milling, premium springs and 7/16 studs it was about $1550. The shipping costs, paypal fees and aussie customs and taxes added some more (quite a lot more actually).
Are those other heads you are looking at 58cc (ie: same as stock 86-91)? Not sure what 85 heads stock cc is.
Are those other heads you are looking at 58cc (ie: same as stock 86-91)? Not sure what 85 heads stock cc is.
Last edited by Lemme; Jul 24, 2011 at 08:40 AM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Adelaide South Australia
the 85 engine has something like 74cc because of the iron heads, I am looking at around 64cc with the alloy heads, the 85 engine has trw flat tops in them, using the compression calculator it works out to nearly 10:1 with 64cc chamber and .028 gasket.
Im thinking about getting 1 head shipped at a time to avoid gst !
Im thinking about getting 1 head shipped at a time to avoid gst !
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 2
From: Perth Western Australia
St. Jude Donor '10
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
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From: Adelaide South Australia
Update on this one, sold the afr's on ebay for $1280 so didnt lose money
Ok, so I have learnt a lesson from that one, so this time I buy a set of new heads from a reputable vendor, and guess what, got ripped off again !
(see thread in general discussion "need consumer advice")
yes I know, should have taken Lemme's advice !
anyway have been busy in the meantime with the intake,
finished porting and siamesing the slp runners,
bolted the gasket to the runners and used the drum sander to match,
then bolted the gasket to the plenum, marked it out and match ported,
Ok, so I have learnt a lesson from that one, so this time I buy a set of new heads from a reputable vendor, and guess what, got ripped off again !
(see thread in general discussion "need consumer advice")yes I know, should have taken Lemme's advice !
anyway have been busy in the meantime with the intake,
finished porting and siamesing the slp runners,
bolted the gasket to the runners and used the drum sander to match,
then bolted the gasket to the plenum, marked it out and match ported,
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Adelaide South Australia
Gday lemme,
it does a couple of things, the siamesing effectively makes the runners shorter, but apparantly it doesnt make a big difference on where the torque and horsepower goes, the power/torque only moves up a few hundred rpm,the deeper you siamese the more it does this, others with more knowledge may be able to give some more info on this,
also by opening the plenum and runners into the more open bellmouth shape it makes it easier for the air to move into the runners, rather than having to squeeze thru tiny little round holes.
Are you upgrading to a super ram ?
it does a couple of things, the siamesing effectively makes the runners shorter, but apparantly it doesnt make a big difference on where the torque and horsepower goes, the power/torque only moves up a few hundred rpm,the deeper you siamese the more it does this, others with more knowledge may be able to give some more info on this,
also by opening the plenum and runners into the more open bellmouth shape it makes it easier for the air to move into the runners, rather than having to squeeze thru tiny little round holes.
Are you upgrading to a super ram ?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,341
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From: Perth Western Australia
St. Jude Donor '10
I have a ported superram (courtesy of Rick) sitting next to me waiting to go on. My understanding is that the superram runners are quite a lot shorter than the stock runners. It would probably work better on a 383 than my 350 but I will soon find out I suppose.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Adelaide South Australia
yeah, the superam runners are a lot shorter being directly under the plenum, on one of the threads on here recently someone had a link to a site that had all the flow figures for all the different types of intakes, the holley stealth ram had the best flow but the accel superam flowed a lot more than a slp equipped tpi, dont know if you saw it ?
I think those afr 195's you have will be able to make the most of the superam !
I think those afr 195's you have will be able to make the most of the superam !
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 2
From: Perth Western Australia
St. Jude Donor '10
Here are photos of the comparison:
Big difference in diameter and length. Probably no tuned port action happening with a superram.
Can't remember seeing the flow figure comparisons. Like to see it.
Big difference in diameter and length. Probably no tuned port action happening with a superram.
Can't remember seeing the flow figure comparisons. Like to see it.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,973
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From: Adelaide South Australia
thanks craig but to coin a popular phrase on the forum, where were you when i was looking for some heads ! 
I am now the proud owner of the most expensive small block street heads in the world ! I will have to see what the Edelbrock cnc 185 heads are like, the one I have seems quite nice but looks a bit lonely
I am now the proud owner of the most expensive small block street heads in the world ! I will have to see what the Edelbrock cnc 185 heads are like, the one I have seems quite nice but looks a bit lonely