Found the problem!!!!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
From: Nashua NH
Found the problem!!!!
After pulling the front cover and finding the timing marks oerfectly in line, I decided to go a step further with it and went on Comp Cams website....and there it was!!
the instructions they packaged with the timing set stated(in boldface lettering, I must add) that you "MUST MAKE SURE THE TIMING MARK ON THE CRANK IS AT 12:00 AND THE TIMING MARK ON THE CAM IS AT 6:00"
BULLS@$T!!!!
After careful review, the directions on the web site state that you must follow manufacturers reccomendation...
WHY DIDN'T THEY SAY THAT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE TIMING SET????
Well, all's well that ends well...maybe I'll drive it tomorrow!! :yesnod:
the instructions they packaged with the timing set stated(in boldface lettering, I must add) that you "MUST MAKE SURE THE TIMING MARK ON THE CRANK IS AT 12:00 AND THE TIMING MARK ON THE CAM IS AT 6:00"
BULLS@$T!!!!
After careful review, the directions on the web site state that you must follow manufacturers reccomendation...
WHY DIDN'T THEY SAY THAT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE TIMING SET????
Well, all's well that ends well...maybe I'll drive it tomorrow!! :yesnod:
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,381
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Re: Found the problem!!!! (Mark85Vett)
If that was the problem, could you just turn the distributor 180 degrees?
I hate all this timing talk. My service manual says 12 & 12, other are saying 12 & 6. ArRRRGHHH!!!! I guess I'll find out soon. :(
I hate all this timing talk. My service manual says 12 & 12, other are saying 12 & 6. ArRRRGHHH!!!! I guess I'll find out soon. :(
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
From: Nashua NH
Re: Found the problem!!!! (scorp508)
Scorp,
I suppose in a normal car you could just turn the distributor, but I think there would be an issue of turning the distributor to time it...plus, the power and tach wires wouldn't reach.
As far as the dots go, line them up as the service manual indicates, or call your camshaft manufacturer's help line. If it's installed 180 degrees off, there isn't an issue of valve interference...but if you're 90 degrees off, kiss your valves goodbye!
I'll be glad when it's all over and I'm back to driving it again. My commute to work is 80 miles each way, and my Dodge Ram only gets 13 miles to the gallon!!!
:eek: :eek:
I suppose in a normal car you could just turn the distributor, but I think there would be an issue of turning the distributor to time it...plus, the power and tach wires wouldn't reach.
As far as the dots go, line them up as the service manual indicates, or call your camshaft manufacturer's help line. If it's installed 180 degrees off, there isn't an issue of valve interference...but if you're 90 degrees off, kiss your valves goodbye!
I'll be glad when it's all over and I'm back to driving it again. My commute to work is 80 miles each way, and my Dodge Ram only gets 13 miles to the gallon!!!
:eek: :eek:
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,130
Likes: 7
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Found the problem!!!! (Mark85Vett)
Hey mark,
Been following the threads and hope you got it nailed this time.I know these things can be a real PITA.I had a similiar problem 2 summers ago with my rebuilt engine with a crane cam.
Dropped motor back in the car,set # 1 cylinder up,installed the dist. where I had marked it and fired up the motor but it would only turn over and over.No run.
Advancing it to 6º BTDC didnt get it running too good...so I advanced it to 8-then 10 btdc and she ran great!I had thought I installed the dist a tooth off as suggested by another member but having reinstalled it many times over and over,the results came out the same.
Was a nervous wreck the engine shop may have installed the timing marks in the wrong place and would have to tear it all down to get it corrected.Since it ran good,I said whew and left it alone.No problems.
Hope it works out for you.Im sure youll get it.
:)
Been following the threads and hope you got it nailed this time.I know these things can be a real PITA.I had a similiar problem 2 summers ago with my rebuilt engine with a crane cam.
Dropped motor back in the car,set # 1 cylinder up,installed the dist. where I had marked it and fired up the motor but it would only turn over and over.No run.
Advancing it to 6º BTDC didnt get it running too good...so I advanced it to 8-then 10 btdc and she ran great!I had thought I installed the dist a tooth off as suggested by another member but having reinstalled it many times over and over,the results came out the same.
Was a nervous wreck the engine shop may have installed the timing marks in the wrong place and would have to tear it all down to get it corrected.Since it ran good,I said whew and left it alone.No problems.
Hope it works out for you.Im sure youll get it.
:)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 0
From: Lockport NY
Re: Found the problem!!!! (scorp508)
Scorp -
This shouldn't be an issue for you. Just compare the first cam lobe with the OEM cam first lobe - if it is exactly the same position as OEM lobe, follow GM manual instructs. If it's 180* off, follow the other instructs.
We shouldn't have to guess; agreed. But knowing that this is an issue, we should all double-check our cams to know which alignment method to use.
This shouldn't be an issue for you. Just compare the first cam lobe with the OEM cam first lobe - if it is exactly the same position as OEM lobe, follow GM manual instructs. If it's 180* off, follow the other instructs.
We shouldn't have to guess; agreed. But knowing that this is an issue, we should all double-check our cams to know which alignment method to use.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 0
From: Lockport NY
Re: Found the problem!!!! (Mark85Vett)
Mark -
As Scorp indicated, if you have the cam exactly 180* off, you could have re-set the distributor 180* off as well to get it to run. That is, to get the harmonic damper lines to match up so you could time it.
The engine doesn't care if the cam is 180* off...The valves will still function properly and the engine will fire *if* distributor is 180* off as well...
Yes, it is butt- backwards. But it'll work.
As Scorp indicated, if you have the cam exactly 180* off, you could have re-set the distributor 180* off as well to get it to run. That is, to get the harmonic damper lines to match up so you could time it.
The engine doesn't care if the cam is 180* off...The valves will still function properly and the engine will fire *if* distributor is 180* off as well...
Yes, it is butt- backwards. But it'll work.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 515
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From: Nashua NH
Re: Found the problem!!!! (Goody)
Well I got it to run....like crap. Hooked up my timing light and its firing off at 4 degrees after. I'm at the end of the adjustment, so I have to pull the distributor out and move it a tooth. the engine got real hot, now I can't pull the distributor out. I'll wait till it cools down some then I'll try again.
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Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,381
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
I suppose in a normal car you could just turn the distributor, but I think there would be an issue of turning the distributor to time it...plus, the power and tach wires wouldn't reach.
Don't turn the distributor, just move the plug wires to the oppostie side of where they are. When I replaced my dist after fixing the distributor gear I was 2 teeth off. Since it was dark and late we just moved the plug wires counterclockwise one position and it was more than enough to allow us to time it properly. :)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 0
From: Lockport NY
Re: (scorp508)
I don't know what you're planning next, but if your cam is 180* out, it really isn't necessary to tear it down & re-do it.
Just turn the distributor shaft 180*. Don't change the wire locations, or twist the distributor body. Unbolt the hold-down, raise the shaft (with rotor) so it points to # 6 cap terminal/wire. The damper lines will show up for setting timing, the firing order will be correct. You'll just be timing # 6 cylinder instead of # 1. Makes no difference.
If you're really lazy and don't want to pull the distributor up at all, then just nibble/file the rotor so that you can mount it with the tang end where the round end would be...This lets the rotor point at # 6 cap terminal/wire, same as turning the shaft.
All depends on how lazy you are...
Me, if I'd spent a bunch of time and effort (plus $), I'd take the easiest way out...
..."Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances"...
Just turn the distributor shaft 180*. Don't change the wire locations, or twist the distributor body. Unbolt the hold-down, raise the shaft (with rotor) so it points to # 6 cap terminal/wire. The damper lines will show up for setting timing, the firing order will be correct. You'll just be timing # 6 cylinder instead of # 1. Makes no difference.
If you're really lazy and don't want to pull the distributor up at all, then just nibble/file the rotor so that you can mount it with the tang end where the round end would be...This lets the rotor point at # 6 cap terminal/wire, same as turning the shaft.
All depends on how lazy you are...
Me, if I'd spent a bunch of time and effort (plus $), I'd take the easiest way out...
..."Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances"...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 0
From: Lockport NY
Re: Found the problem!!!! (Mark85Vett)
By the way, there's another issue here that no one has mentioned...
The distributor drives the oil pump. That rod with the slot you see inside the distributor hole in the manifold is connected to the oil pump driveshaft by a nylon coupling about 1 1/2" long. That coupling gets brittle with age & heat & petroleum goo, and cracks. It doesn't always fall off; sometimes it's a straight crack that looks "normal". The shaft still turns, the oil pump works...But it could fall off at any time.
If you've got the motor out to install a cam, always put a new coupling on the oil pump shaft.
Lemme see if I can find it here...
Retainer, Dist to Oil Pump Shf 1984-91 Part # 3764554
The distributor drives the oil pump. That rod with the slot you see inside the distributor hole in the manifold is connected to the oil pump driveshaft by a nylon coupling about 1 1/2" long. That coupling gets brittle with age & heat & petroleum goo, and cracks. It doesn't always fall off; sometimes it's a straight crack that looks "normal". The shaft still turns, the oil pump works...But it could fall off at any time.
If you've got the motor out to install a cam, always put a new coupling on the oil pump shaft.
Lemme see if I can find it here...
Retainer, Dist to Oil Pump Shf 1984-91 Part # 3764554
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,516
Likes: 0
From: Lockport NY
Re: Found the problem!!!! (jmr302)
...Oops for me, too...I forgot to mention *why* that coupling is relevant...
If it cracks, the shaft will flop around more than normal, and it can be quite difficult to get the distributor to drop onto the shaft.
If it cracks, the shaft will flop around more than normal, and it can be quite difficult to get the distributor to drop onto the shaft.