This will keep you busy for awhile
Not a bad reference point.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/table...hevy_Big_Block

 

I found that exact same site Ron about 1-1/2 weeks ago.

When I got kicked off of C4 recent again.

M7 clued me in where to look.........checking all current & past fuel injector flow rates.

Found my stock 1987 Bosch injectors & flow rate in grams per minute & cc per minute.

18.25lbs @ 43.5 psi - 3 Bar does not equal 21.6 lbs @ 43.5 psi.

LOL

57 psi on those recent replaced Bosch 3's = 20.6 lbs...........LOL

Chit.......say no more....

Thank You M7
You are my Hero of 2011.......The truth....

I spent a few hours browsing through all the cylinder head flow #'s also Ron.

I can't believe there are some traditional Pontiac V8 aftermarket cylinder heads that flow upwards of 500 cfm @ 28 inches of water depression...........
Been out of the Pontiac loop since I bought my 87 in 2007.

Love my C4 Chevie.....

Those 500 CFM Big Block Pontiac V8 heads aftermarket ported out have to have a price tag of $8,500 to $10 K for a pair.
Racing with them Ponchos is terribly expensive anymore if you want to run the 8's or faster.
Know a few Chi town Pontiac racers with over $50 K in engines alone.
1 was an original Mickey Thompson 63 Tempest.
Value at time ?????
Likely over $250,000.00

Brian

 

PIcked up a Big Block this morning along with a couple pairs of heads thought Id look them up and see where they start at.

No more small blocks for me.

 

Oh Ron..........



I just knew you were not going to roll over & die either....

You are old school like me........

Never give up, never quit trying, sooner or later You will prevail once again.........
Infamous words from my late bud Bill.

Since he is no longer with us & I only remain with his learned knowledge & lessons in life,
I will speak for him tonight....

He would respect You & consider You a life long friend too.

When I earn enough $$$,
some of my own cylinder heads are coming your way Via UPS man.
Have some ponchos I want you to bless with your porting hands, knowledge & experience also.

Brian R.

 

Why don't you post that injector# for verification. If wrong sizes have been sent out, others (esp with 87's) could verify the same. I'm sure you'd get correct replacements.

That vendor is (as mentioned in tons of other threads) very good about working with customers to solve problems.

The website with head flow data is good to post again. IIRC, Vader86 has (or had) that linked on his website. Good thing to share flow, part#, experiences...etc....

 

Not going to start anything New Greg,

Still respect You much & your tuning abilities.

Know how to put up a battle & fight to the end just like me.
No one wins.
found that out.

I removed the bosch 3's.

They are out.

Other injectors are in & car runs much better.

Without a doubt in my mind,
My car would of had a meltdown on the dyno.
Not your intention I believe.
Somebody else perhaps Yes.

I have been around chassis dynos in the past to enough not to trust them 100 %.
especially when you are not allowed to sit in the driver's seat to run your own car.

I had a job in 2006 in a garage with an owner that was super wealthy.
He had a MUSTANG Dual Roller Chassis Dyno.
Brand New.
I know exactly 1st hand what they can do & their limitations.

There is absolute no substitute for a Eddy Current Brake engine dyno.
Engine has to be removed from the vehicle.
Heunun Freud.......excuse my spelling tonight here.

Edelbrock has the exact same Eddy Current dyno.

High amperage current is sent to a resistance bridge.
Your Load.

Brian

 

Correct. My intention was to help identify if/what problem may exist. People who don't share their findings (with specifics) are thrown into my personal category of doubt.

If I said my car would run in the 10's, anyone reasonable would assume otherwise. Proof is sharing.

I see a lot of skating going on. Since flow of injectors doesn't relate to flow of heads, your post SEEMS an off-topic attempt to regain credibility after an unaccepted challenge. No part#'s. No help to make sure others haven't run into the same problem. I would -- and certainly post everything relevent -- if I thought I'd uncovered a problem.

Have you been to West Bend Dyno before and new they wouldn't let you (personally) do your pulls? Do you know they wouldn't back off if they saw an AFR problem?

While tuning mine on a local dyno, we paid VERY close attention to AFR. It was more important that anything else.

 

Now Brian.....how many million times do I have to tell you to quit exaggerating. For a BILLION dollars I would take my favorite car and drop it from an airplane without a parachute...........with my girlfriend inside. I'm certain that with a woman's love of money and with a BILLION dollars in my pocket I could find another Girlfriend and a new car.

We've gotta get together for that bench racing/beer drinking, BS session one of these days. Now quit talking about anything that injects fuel into anything.

 

That hits the nail on the head best. Exaggeration is how I view many of these posts. Not particularly helpful either.

More than one person predicted the ways a dyno would prove bad -- after a challenge was made to Brian. Their prediction came true. He found a reason dynos are "bad". FWIW, I already knew Jon had the ability to adjust injector flow. Today (when speaking with him about the part# issue), I learned most sets are increased from the stock rating of 18.5 (on heptane). THAT, I didn't know. Since they are flow matched after modification, you will get what you asked for.

I learned the part # didn't mean anything since he asks what flow a customer wants, then sets them up to that rate.

Most people don't realize what an effect voltage variances, wire oxidization, and other parts being out of original OEM spec can have on a car. Often lower FP and response.

Brian should have accepted the challenge and/or sent injectors back if he really wanted more flow. Or, asked for flow confirmation -- if he really thought that hurt his performance above 115mph. Otherwise, he said they ran better than OEM injectors.

Saying you (Brian) could humiliate someone isn't what I admire in anyone. Especially behind obvious bragging, exaggeration, and avoidance of direct challenges. This isn't meant as criticism...just how I view what's happening. As far as I understood, you turned down a challenge from the vendor to solve an issue and went on to get the thread closed. For a topic that was supposed to die, you can't let go, can you? While you tell me to leave things alone, you bring up a dead horse...one you ran from. That's not how you "win" a battle.

I suspect if/when Jon reads this he might demonstrate how the same injector can be made to flow what a customer requests. If so, it would disprove any issue about the part#. And, show how working with a vendor (vs. trying to embarass one) is the best approach to solve a problem.

That's how I'd handle it.

 

Well said, Gregg. Now when I get my Vert done with all the hoops and Toledo Pro stuff I want to come to your place and get a pic of our cars together. Both are the best color for sure and I hope to look good enough to sit beside yours without being ashamed. Beautiful car. Every time you post I've just gotta stare at the avatar.

Now....you too........quit talking about dyno's and things that go squirt. All that accomplishes is to make some people mad enough to get a time out from the forum.

 

10-4 that. And, hope MINE looks as good as YOURS!

 

I'm no dyno expert by any means but I know a guy who has one in his shop. I can't remember the name of the one he has now (It'll probably come to me right after I post this).

He had a Mustang and didn't like it. He said the loads put out a TON of heat that you could feel if you walked by. He said the main thing he didn't like was you had to wait for them to cool down before you could do another run. He didn't like the software package that came with it either.

I've seen a lot of dyno runs in that shop and my observation was that there's a lot more to it than you would think. I've only seen one time when the owner of the car drove it on the dyno. It was a blown '55 Chevy drag car with a huge big block in it. The run was VERY short...

 

Confused? What is the deal with the injector flow rate you are providing up there? Are you saying my Bosch III 42#'s rated at 43.5 to 42#'s (according to chart I have) arent 42#'s? Should I just finish my beer and move on?

 

Brian was saying he assumed his injectors flowed less than 22# based on the part# found on hit units. He didn't realize (or take into account) that Jon modifies injectors as part of the rebuilding process.

As you can see from this link, the 22# stock injectors are rebuilt and altered to fit in a stock height fuel rail. In addition, the flow is altered (from the original 19.5lb gas/18# heptane rating). IOW, their flow is increased, measured, and flow-matched to 22#.

It's my understanding that other injectors sold by Jon (especially custom injectors) are created by altering an existing unit/model. This is one of his specialties -- something very few other injector vendors can accomplish.

As mentioned in a previous thread, Jon has been considering 5% larger-than-stock injectors to compensate for E10 requirements. This is one of the reasons Jon and I have been talking lately.

FWIW, when you consider the results of aging for the our fuel systems, having more fuel has other advantages....

As for the beer....

 

Thanks. I went ahead and drank two beers anyways, LOL