Oil analysis lab needed. (pic)
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St. Jude Donor '05
73rd, so I have some catching up to do.
383Vet I have the oiling hole on mine, MSD. Wondering if I need/should do that too. Plus looks like i have areas where two orings should be and there are none. HMM
383Vet I have the oiling hole on mine, MSD. Wondering if I need/should do that too. Plus looks like i have areas where two orings should be and there are none. HMM
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St. Jude Donor '05
After looking into it sounds like I got a cheap pos Chinese gear.
Most use an Ampco-45 treated bronze they dont seem to wear.
That or a composite by Comp at $120
Crane makes a melonized that supposely is compatible
Doesnt sound like the bronze dust would hurt anything-just doesnt give you a warm and fuzzy feeling when dumping oil from a fresh motor.
Well see...
was going to put it on the rollers next week, too.
Most use an Ampco-45 treated bronze they dont seem to wear.
That or a composite by Comp at $120
Crane makes a melonized that supposely is compatible
Doesnt sound like the bronze dust would hurt anything-just doesnt give you a warm and fuzzy feeling when dumping oil from a fresh motor.
Well see...
was going to put it on the rollers next week, too.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Spartanburg South Carolina
Wow scary. When I blew the motor in one of my subarus (spun a rod bearing) that's exactly what the oil looked like. Gold sparkly. Thank goodness it was just cam gear.
Oh and for oil analysis I've used blackstone laberatories before as already mentioned. They provide excellent reports.
Oh and for oil analysis I've used blackstone laberatories before as already mentioned. They provide excellent reports.
Last edited by Dr.Huxtable; Feb 5, 2012 at 11:14 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '05
I think its just the gear, better be.
If its a bearing then everything changes.
Going to change the gear and run it, be holding my breath on the next oil change.
If its a bearing then everything changes.
Going to change the gear and run it, be holding my breath on the next oil change.
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St. Jude Donor '05
Definitely will
Arabs must love me at 8 qts a pop
Probably change this one out within 20 mi or so inspect the new gear.
If the gear checks out and the oil looks clean or mostly clean then Ill refill and drive the beans out of it. I suppose if the new gear looked good and the oil was just as bad then I would have a bearing issue
Just cant imagine that, this machinist really took his time and tried to idiot proof the motor he knows its going to get worked good.
If its the same then its motor pull time. Honestly if that were the case it will probably sit for a long time. Think it will be Ok though.
Arabs must love me at 8 qts a pop
Probably change this one out within 20 mi or so inspect the new gear.
If the gear checks out and the oil looks clean or mostly clean then Ill refill and drive the beans out of it. I suppose if the new gear looked good and the oil was just as bad then I would have a bearing issue
Just cant imagine that, this machinist really took his time and tried to idiot proof the motor he knows its going to get worked good.
If its the same then its motor pull time. Honestly if that were the case it will probably sit for a long time. Think it will be Ok though.
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Good luck! I hope it was just the bronze gear.
Kind of on topic, why do people choose a bronze gear? What is so bad about an iron gear or some other material to make a bronze one ideal? Just doesnt seem like the place I would want to take a chance on holding up.
Kind of on topic, why do people choose a bronze gear? What is so bad about an iron gear or some other material to make a bronze one ideal? Just doesnt seem like the place I would want to take a chance on holding up.
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Hi Kubs. Some camshafts have iron gears pressed on the the end. These are compatable with the harder iron distributor gears. Some billet camshafts have the gears ground with the cam. The billet material is not as hard and would be eaten up with an iron distributor gear. A softer (bronze) gear is used in this application and will wear before the cam gear.
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St. Jude Donor '05
Just went to look into a Comp composite. Shop thats used them forever recently stopped as one lost all its teeth saw it there.
SO...look into a Crane melonized but probably go with the treated bronze above. Think I got ahold of a cheap Chines POS gear.
Talked to the machinist he was more than concerned. Following throuhg. If the oil keeps looking like it does then we got bigger problems but sounds like he will stand behind things lets hope it doesnt go there.
bearing I imagine would be more of a silverish color this is def exact shade as the gear.
Do have the oil bypass plugged but apparently it does NOT get it all lol.
Ill have the filter cut open and toss up some pics of whats inside.
Kinda curious myself.
What a bummer.
Ill never get an all billet cam (gear) again. Wasnt ordered this way it just wound up like that. no returns on custom cams. Sweet.
SO...look into a Crane melonized but probably go with the treated bronze above. Think I got ahold of a cheap Chines POS gear.
Talked to the machinist he was more than concerned. Following throuhg. If the oil keeps looking like it does then we got bigger problems but sounds like he will stand behind things lets hope it doesnt go there.
bearing I imagine would be more of a silverish color this is def exact shade as the gear.
Do have the oil bypass plugged but apparently it does NOT get it all lol.
Ill have the filter cut open and toss up some pics of whats inside.
Kinda curious myself.
What a bummer.
Ill never get an all billet cam (gear) again. Wasnt ordered this way it just wound up like that. no returns on custom cams. Sweet.
Suckin' gas, haulin' ass.
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From: Newport News Virginia
Man this whole thing sucks. I hope all that was done was a gear being chewed up. If you ate through all the babbit in the bearings and got down to copper, it definitely wouldn't be that "gold" of a color. Copper and babbit are way different.
Hoping for the best for you. Are you running an oil cooler by chance?
Hoping for the best for you. Are you running an oil cooler by chance?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Spartanburg South Carolina
Very true. Def should try to get that crud out whatever it is with 1 or 2 quick oil changes. Also true, oil coolers are a collecting ground for metal debris. Impossible to clean out
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St. Jude Donor '05
No oil cooler, planned on running synthetic
It appears all bronze so far so holding my breath.
GMPP makes a melonized steel gear which they recommend for all "steel" geared cams I may look into that also.
Teeth on cam look ok. Slight wear towards the top of teeth nothing super bad. Guy at Isky suggested cam endplay was off from the getgo which could force the cam forward causing a problem like this. Also said the teeth on the cam are probably knife edged and shot to pull the cam. Doesnt look like it maybe caught it in time.
Cam endplay was set at 7-8 thou should be fine. Hopefully as 383vet said bum gear.
Roll the dice.
It appears all bronze so far so holding my breath.
GMPP makes a melonized steel gear which they recommend for all "steel" geared cams I may look into that also.
Teeth on cam look ok. Slight wear towards the top of teeth nothing super bad. Guy at Isky suggested cam endplay was off from the getgo which could force the cam forward causing a problem like this. Also said the teeth on the cam are probably knife edged and shot to pull the cam. Doesnt look like it maybe caught it in time.
Cam endplay was set at 7-8 thou should be fine. Hopefully as 383vet said bum gear.
Roll the dice.
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St. Jude Donor '05
Did a lot of googling seems many have had this problem.
Interesting.
Supposedly the GM piece is the way to go.
My shaft dia is .500 dont know what theirs (for hei!) is
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Camshafts/index.cfm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-11950-1/
Another intersting note for those of you using HEI suposedly hasa different type of gear.
Interesting.
Supposedly the GM piece is the way to go.
My shaft dia is .500 dont know what theirs (for hei!) is
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Camshafts/index.cfm
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-11950-1/
Another intersting note for those of you using HEI suposedly hasa different type of gear.
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St. Jude Donor '05
I think you just got a bum distributor gear.
Summit 850050
Looks like MSD sold under their name. Or some copy who knows.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...d=850050&dds=1
Last edited by cv67; Feb 6, 2012 at 09:41 PM.
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St. Jude Donor '05
Spoke at length with Chris Straub @ www.straubtechnologies.com
and after going over what materials this cam is made from (what grade steel) decided to go with the AMPCO-45 bronze gear. Its pretty hard and durable. Being as there is probably some wear on the cam gear Ill stick with the similar material
he claims 20-25k miles out of one of these. If I got 10k Id be happy that would take me yrs to put that mileage on.
Grinds one heck of a cam, too seen many before and after posts of guys on another forum with track times once they put in what he made. Knows his stuff.
383Vet have a feeling youre right. Think I got ahold of a Chinese gear that probably wasnt cut right and the damage started from teh get go. It was a bit tight going in but never occurred to me..
Anyway keep you guys posted.
Most this is blabbering on but thought some of the info may help someone considering an all billet or having a similar issue
Looks different than what I got now
http://www.straubtechnologies.com/am...aft-chevy-msd/
and after going over what materials this cam is made from (what grade steel) decided to go with the AMPCO-45 bronze gear. Its pretty hard and durable. Being as there is probably some wear on the cam gear Ill stick with the similar material
he claims 20-25k miles out of one of these. If I got 10k Id be happy that would take me yrs to put that mileage on.
Grinds one heck of a cam, too seen many before and after posts of guys on another forum with track times once they put in what he made. Knows his stuff.
383Vet have a feeling youre right. Think I got ahold of a Chinese gear that probably wasnt cut right and the damage started from teh get go. It was a bit tight going in but never occurred to me..
Anyway keep you guys posted.
Most this is blabbering on but thought some of the info may help someone considering an all billet or having a similar issue
Looks different than what I got now
http://www.straubtechnologies.com/am...aft-chevy-msd/
Last edited by cv67; Feb 7, 2012 at 11:26 AM.