CCM Sends all the LCD Data to the Cluster. it gets the Data for the LCD from the Serial line that the ECM feeds to the CCM. Fuel gauge wires direct tot he CCM then data is sent to Cluster

 

No...

The CCM receives from the pcm:
Oil temp
Coolant Temp
PCM status
fuel injector display
engine rotation data (to calc oil usage)
and possibly more from the PCM

This is just what I can see from deductive reasoning...
These parameters are displayed on the LCD, and the LCD data is straight from the CCM. I havent verified the pinouts on the cluster(any one have these by chance?) to see where all the other gauges get their input. I *think* oil pressure and the analog coolant temp are fed from those sensors alone, as I do remember of the two coolant temp sensors, one will effect the analog and one effects the digital. It is likely the tach feed comes from the ECM or ICM... could be from the CCM... dont know. The lights on the cluster are controlled by PWM (pulse width modulation) in the CCM, and driven by a large transistor that is mounted by the steering column (found this out when I was adding LEDs and HIDs to the car, I blew it up. lol)


The VSS input or 4000ppm signal is straight from the sensor itself.

also the ASR/ABS (EBTCM) has a feed on the serial data bus, as does the DERM(air bags). So this data may be used by the CCM for lighting the ASR/ABS and air bag lights.





As of now, I have gone full circle. I am back to looking at the PIM, and even considering the piggy back approach. I would essentially be eliminating the engine control part of PCM, but I would still need the opti to have its outputs for the tach to read. unless I can figure out where that data comes from on the cluster, and/or see what the 0411 puts out for this data. Or Ch@os to see how he fed his tach from the LSX...

 

24x info

oh yeah, thedamn PIM maybe this has been the ticket the whole time, and I just Nuked it...

 

PIM microcontroller...



there are the guts to the PIM

" In LSx vehicles there is a PIM (powertrain interface module) that does a conversion so the OBD-II PCM can talk on the ALDL bus. The BCM as the bus master schedules when each device should talk on the bus. Basically it requests information on behalf of the dash, it sends out a request that the PCM detects which returns the info to drive some of the dash functions. It also does the same for the SRS and ABS by sending out a message asking for its status."

from our friends down under, PIM details, confirming what it does


This is who builds the PIM
maybe they can shed some light to see if it can translate any message or ig the messages have to be progammed in. regardless, I think this is the ticket. I need a programmer who knows microcontrollers... anyone?? lol

 

Jonathan,

You ready to start collaborating now?

Jep

 

Jep,

Thats a big 10-roger...






I think in these hundred pages or so of evolution, I have gone full circle.

I will be ordering a PIM, 0411 PCM and a few UART and VPW readers, and I am going to see what I can do. I am not a programmer, but if someone else can do it, I can too!
I will be out to sea for another 3 weeks. The parts will be waiting for me, and I will get started on that ASAP.

I am working on the triggering side of things today.

 

I personally think the piggy back approach might be best. That way the CCM is happy, LT1 ECM is happy for the most part. LS1 ECM has engine control+all your tuning goodies+reliable ignition system=Perfect C4.

 

The only drawback... Trip computer would have to be tuned.

if the PIM thing doesnt work, piggy back will be the answer...

 

The only drawback... Trip computer would have to be tuned.

if the PIM thing doesnt work, piggy back will be the answer...

 

You will need an '04 Pontiac GTO PIM, GM part # 92123173. The '04 is Class II to UART 8192. The '05 & '06 is GMLAN to UART 8192.

Jep

 

Excellent, I emailed AAPL about the part number last night. Glad you got there first!

Have you gotten your hands on one yet?

 

Available at GMPARTSONLINE.NET for $118.65 with no core charge.

New part number is 92185443.

 

PIM exploration....

the PIM only has one connector, 16 pins, only five of which are used.

 

Do you work at a GM dealer? I couldnt find that new part number, but I found out why they made a new part number... I guess people are having sync problems with new and old pcm/pim/bcm on the holden cars. They updated the program at some point. I dont think we will have an issue with this sync, it will be garbage to our CCM. But our CCM does want a status update from the PCM, verifying all is well....
And they revised the micro-controller to a lead free roHs compliant piece...

more PIM data, taken from a Holden supplied word document... I forgot to save the link though...

Powertrain Interface Module (PIM)
The PIM is located under the Left Hand Side Passenger Kick Panel.
It is NOT Repairable.
The PIM is an Electronic Module which acts as an interface between the following:
1. Body Control Module
2. PCM
3. Instrument Panel and
4. Data Link Connector.
*
The GEN III System uses 2 Types of Serial Data.
The PIM translates both types and sends the Signals to the Correct Devices.
Okay so were going to have to change the addressing of this to what the PCM is in our car... once this thing is known in our system as the PCM to the other devices, we satisfy the other devices on the bus. Namely the CCM. Then we change who it addresses when it has the data to deliver.


*
Older (UART) System
The Older System (UART) is 5 Volts Pulses at a Fixed Pulse Width.
Transmitted at 8,192 Bits per Second from Body Control Module.
*
New (Class II) System
The New System (Class II) is 7 Volts Pulses at Several Pulse Widths.
Transmitted at 10,400 Bits per Second from Powertrain Control Module.
*
The PIM Translates for the:
1. Starter Motor Operation. 6. Gear Position Indicator Lamps.
2. Malfunction Indicator Lamp. 7. Air Condition Request Signal.
3. Cooling Fan Low Speed Operation. 8. Power/ Economy Lamp.
4. Oil Pressure Warning Lamp. 9. Theft Deterrent Immobilisation.
5. Low Coolant Lamp.

I think this is what we need to change. We're gonna need coolant temp, oil temp, fuel data, and possibly more. But as it looks, we get 9 choices of words to translate for. This will be the data it wants to deliver to the addresses we gave it.... I think Im getting the hang of this programming idea. haha





*
If the PIM is replaced, the BCM, PIM and PCM Must be Electronically Security Linked.
This Can Only be Performed with a Tech 2 Data Scan Tool.

I dont think we will have to do this. Or dont need to have it do any of that jazz. I am pretty sure we can just remove this part. Or we could sync the PCM/CCM/PIM and require everyone to use a tech 2... ha, okay bad idea. I have read that some of the Holden guys have used PCMs that had the vats deleted and they had no issue with the PIM needing to be synced. But it makes me wonder if we should look into this more.

*
Pin 6 UART Serial Data.
Pin 11 Diagnostic Test Enable. is this UART or class 2??
Pin 7 Class II Serial Data.
Pin 15 Ignition Power.
Pin 8 Starter Relay. Dont need that, our CCM does that
Pin 16 Ground.

-------------------------
pim swap info


Jep,
You nailed the '04 only ordeal!

 

Jonathan,

No, I don't work at a GM dealer. I'm a certified Mercruiser Master Technician.

I've got an offer in on a 2004 GTO PIM on Ebay. It was accepted, but the seller can't provide the IMMOB code. He can provide the VIN, but I contacted my local GM dealer and they won't look up the IMMOB code without a registration or title in my name. It may be moot if turning off security in the PCM eliminates the need for linking the PCM and PIM. Sure would be nice to still have anti-theft though. My other option is to bail on the Ebay buy and just purchase the new PIM for $118.00.

I researched the 3 PIM chips.

1) The large one, as you know, is the microprocessor. It is an automotive-specific unit that has a J1850 VPW (Class II) link controller onboard. It uses 6808 assembly language, which is a subset of 6811. I've been working heavily with 6811 in disassembling the code for my 1991 ZR-1 ECM. If I can get a dump of the PIM code, we can hack it, modify as necessary and then reflash the microprocessor.

2) The medium size one is a voltage regulator. Nothing special there.

3) The small one is an automotive-specific J1850 VPW (Class II) transceiver. SURPRISE!!!

I made an Ebay offer on a Dearborn Group Digital Protocol Adapter, model VSI-C2. This handy gadget, along with their free Data Link Monitor software, will allow me to sniff traffic on UART and Class II buses. It also supports transmitting messages to the buses as well. Their website is at http://www.dgtech.com. The manual for the software is at http://www.dgtech.com/product/dlm/manual/dlm2_36.pdf. The manual for the VSI-C2 is available at http://www.docstoc.com/docs/35725408...erface---Class.

My offer was just accepted, so it will be on the way.

I've got a buddy with a vehicle with a 411 PCM, so I can use his for that end of it. I can see what's going on between my CCM and ECM. I just wish that I knew someone with an '04 GTO. I guess that I really don't need the GTO, since what's important is keeping our CCMs happy and feeding the correct data to the IPC via the CCM.

Jep

 

Technical Development has been taken offline.

I will post updates as we have them.

 

I have been thinking about this a lot. I'm thinking I would have been better off leaving my 91 ECM in place and piggibacked with the LS1 PCM. I have also been thinking about the Idea of using a micro squirt to run the Ls engine and keep the 91 ECM to make the rest of the veh happy. Why a micro squirt? Because they are very small, black, the software is free, they can go under the hood(waterproof) and will run an LS.


a Micro squirt with harness is under $350

 

Just my two cents, but the 411 is a far superior PCM. It's not even close.

Jep

 

It would be nice to have electronic throttle control and to ditch the distributor in favor or coil-per-plug ignition, right? Well... look what I have going on here, from the extremely rare medium-duty version of the 454 that had distributorless ignition AND ETC!: (That is a 24x reluctor, I intend to run this with a 411 PCM and it will look exactly like a de-stroked 8100 with a different firing order!)

EFI connections... I see what you did there...

 

FWIW

The northstar uses a 24x signal. But its reluctor is NOT the same as the LSx (and 60* v6, 454) 24x reluctor. Just thought I would throw that out there...

I was using the N* pulse train and the LSx reluctor and adding things up... something was amiss... So I went to the LSx pulse train and the N* reluctor ring... and Ill be damned. They are both 24x, but how they get there is entirely different.