Planning my 383 build and can get a quality short block for under 3 grand. However this still leaves me with heads/cam and the works.

1. Can i reuse my oil pump, timing chain/cover, my distributor, basically everything minus a cam and head assembly. And my manifold up will bold rigt on correct?

2. AFR and trickflow will put me over budget once all is said and done. Whats the deal with always using them for our vettes? Or is that just if people are using stock stuff? Im sure there are a million other good companies.

What are some companies i could look for if someone is selling a head/cam/lifter/rod/etc kit so i would have everything i need and stay under 5k total in just parts?

Or is afr just that good?

 

1989 L98 to start with edlebrock manifold/high flow runners/ ported plenum/ 52mm tb.

 

AFR is that good. And don't use your stock oil pump. A new one is $30. You can use most everything else that is external. You can get a 383 with AFR heads done for $5k. Use a cast steel crank, forged rods and hyper pistons.

 

You don't need AFR with a long-tube setup. OTOH, if you plan to run it up to higher rpms in the future (with a change in intake), then you should consider them.

I think you could have spent a bit less on your block -- to get more for heads, so I'm a bit confused. Seems like you can redo a block for at least 500 less. Did you go forged?

AFR is "that good" in the sense that no other company gets quite the same flow with respect to it's port-speed. That means you get both low-end and high end performance. More importantly, too many people end up disappointed in the results of porting. Either they didn't get the flow numbers or they punched thru the heads. TPIS probably does the best porting since they use CNC programming (possibly provided by AFR?). Anyway, they can get a 113head to flow about the same as AFR 180s though the intake port ends up closer to 190cc. With valves and porting, that's about $1100ish.

AFR has the downside that people wanting to replace stock 58cc L98 Corvette heads can't get the same chamber size w/o paying another $300ish for angle-milling. OTOH, you could opt for flat milling at $100ish. (Actually, prices may have changed since my purchase.)

Bottom line, AFRs are about $500 more that TPIS porting -- for a new head. Best flow you can get for the buck. TFS is the compromise since they have the "correct" chamber size, cost about the same as TPIS for a new head, but they flow somewhat less. On a long-tube setup, I'd bet money the dyno would't see much less (if any) -- making that type of savings worthwhile. Once you convert to shortrunners and rap it to 6k rpms or more, then you get extra ponies for AFRs. Then, they can't be beat -- for the price. (LTx guys may disagree since the AFR stuff for their cars costs about 25% more.)

If you plan to stick with a longtube setup and have a good porter locally, you could consider that route. Without a change in valves, you might find the best bang-for-the-buck porting and refreshing. Even with largetube stuff, the party is over in the 4500rpm range -- so why port (or buy) for 6k flow needs? I say it's a waste. OTOH, I probably would have found a way to pay less for a shortblock to have more money to spend on heads.

Basically, the more money you spend, the better product you get. In the head department, you don't want to cheap out. Either it'll break or you'll get way less performance than the manufacture claims.

OTOH, you don't need much flow for a large-tube TPI. Consider at least a superram or FIRST intake (if not MR/HSR) before you get too excited about flow numbers.

 

There are various ideas/opinions about what quality is.

TFS and AFR mfgr really good cyl heads. When you take into the context of what they are going to used on, yes they really are "that good" by anyones standard.

You have to look at the price point that your trying to build to.

Under 3K for a short block, your looking at buying a stock block with a cast crank, imported rods, and hyper (or budget forged pistons).... 450-500HP and 5500-6000RPM max capability on those parts. Your not going to come near that with a bolt on TPI intake.

I'm looking at a few mail order houses here and going down the options and prices for heads that fit that bill. From best to worst there is about $500 difference and 80-100 potential HP.

AFR 195 street ports - $1550
TFS 195 - $1250
RHS 200 - $1300
Dart Pro 1 200 - $1400
Dart SHP 200 - $950
Brodix RR 200 - $1400
Brodix IK 200 - $1150
Edelbrock RPM - $1150
Edelbrock E Street - $900 (needs +250 worth of springs to run a hyd roller)
Patriot CNC 195 - $1500
Patriot Freedom 190 - $960

If your really on a budget the Dart SHP is looking really good, but it's got a lost less features than the top of the pile AFR. Almost every heads listed is made in the USA except the Partiot's and RHS castings.
Will

 

If you haven't checked it out....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...stock-l98.html

 

Maybe chamber size (and price adjustment for milling) should be included????

 

There is another alternative. GM vortec heads are cheap but you would need to get a vortec intake for your LTR set up.

 

Some very good advice here! I am a little surprised with the 200cc head, for a 6000rpm build, I was thinking SHP 180s maby I should rethink. I have been looking into a cheaper aluminum head for a top end, cam and oil pan project on a 350 xfire, 6000-6500rpm, similar flow as the OPs 383 build.

 

Thanks for the replies guys, this is the response I wanted.

I have not bought the block yet. I am saying I can get one for that price and I am figuring it into my overall plan. It would have a scat rotating assembly with forged eagle crankshaft. Priced at 2500 from a reputible company.

It seems if AFR is that good and I would be open to converting to a miniram or LT intake I think I can add the couple 100 bucks to get the 190's.

I'm not sure what flow numbers would be on my bigger TPI, but right now I can hit 5500 and still have plenty of breathing room, but then again, I'm only putting about 280hp through it.

I do like the idea of options and that link to the past post is following a lot of my thought process.

I'd rather have a 4 bolt block but if it would be cheaper I could go and use my own. I was thinking of keeping my block assmebled and selling to recoupe some of my losses. It does have 140k on it but compression checks out and runs really strong.

I do a lot of Autocross so I wouldn't want a spinner, the low end torque is a little more important to me.

 

What do you guys think of Pro-Filer 195cc heads? Has anyone used them?

 

5500 might even be a little high for your shift point (using long-runners). See the dyno in my linked thread....

Sell your old short-block to get the money for a used 4-bolt. Not a huge difference in cost -- unless your block is toast. (in which case, you wouldn't be considering reusing it!)

 

I don't think so.

Most of those heads are offered in 72cc or 64cc chamber for the same price. Since he's building a 383 those 2 chamber sizes will give him plenty of leeway with pistons, deck clearance and head gasket to adjust the compression ratio to something acceptable.
Will

 

Out of the box it's no better than the TFS or Brodix IK's.

There are few well known head porters using the Profiler 23* casting to make some nice cyl heads, but once they get thru with them it's not even the same head anymore.
Will

 

Will....I think you're missing the point for the OPs application. I have AFR195's under longtubes and know their limitations under 5k rpms.

I think he should consider TFS -175 heads with 56cc chambers @ around 242cfm ($1250) After angle-milling AFR180's to 56cc chambers, no way they'll flow 260cfm. They might even drop to the same level as these TFS 175s! Even if not...56cc's with good quench would give you a nice bump in compression...to offset any difference. In fact, I'd bet on a more satisfying build because stock compression isn't all that high for 1989. That's why they bumped it up for the final L98 specimens.

The price for 56cc angle-milled AFR180s is at least $1850 vs $1250 for the TFS heads. $600 difference for potentially no gain, none.

For a longtube TPI motor with peak torque less than 4k rpms, I think people need to be more open-minded. When you take into consideration the compression difference, I wouldn't bet against the TFS setup being just as good/better. After all, AFR hasn't put all the other head manufacturers out of business yet.

If I were buiding a 355 L98 TPI setup, TFS 175's would be my first choice....guaranteed. You just don't need 260+cfm

 

I haven't seen the Pro-filer's flow numbers, but I've read somewhere that JEGS own head would be same casting as Pro-Filers. They're showing some decent flow numbers out of the box: http://www.jegs.com/jegs/JEGS_195cc_Flow.jpg

 

I can assure you that I'm not missing anything .

I personally would run the 195 or 200cc head on a 383. Even with the TPI.

Flow numbers don't mean anything when sizing a cyl head to an engine. Cross sectional area means everything and the SCA on those 170-180cc heads is too small for a 383 unless you want the TQ peak to be at idle.

IMO you would be compounding the high air speed of the TPI intake with too small of cyl head... Just like GM with the stock L98.

There is no added cost of milling any heads because with flat tops in a 383, the 64cc chamber is going to be 11.1 up to 11.5SCR depending on gasket and machine work. 72cc is going to be 9.8 up to 10.25SCR....

TFS 175's would be fine on a 355 but they are way to small when you add 30 cubic inches.
Will

 

I use Edelbrock performer heads. They netted 40 more HP than Vortecs. Thats pretty significant.

 

I'm the one who missed something...because I'd forgotten the OP's 383 (reason posted below). Even with the extra 30 cubes, the TPI limit is still 5k rpms and I think you'd be surprised on how small the difference between AFR195's and TFS 175's would be on a 383TPI. I still think the TFS are a great choice for a 5k rpm motor. I've never seen a comparison of a longtube TPI setup to prove otherwise. OTOH, I have seen a comparison between two other TPI setups and my motor.

I bought AFR 195's in case I go to an HSR (hi-rise hood). In no way shape or form am I overwhelmed by what the 195's did compared to ported 113's on mrc24x's 355 auto-x motor. (Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with them and they did a bit better, but I could have saved a good chunk of money with Trickflow!) BTW....I was thinking about his when I posted the 355 number above.

Show me a setup with AFR's under longtubes that killed TFS or well-ported 113's and I've believe you. Though I conceed AFR sells a great product for lot's of applications, the problem is AFR is oversold for EVERY application. In this case, they're not needed under a TPI. I would only consider them advisable if considering a shorter-runnered intake.

FWIW, I've seen 3 dynos of three TPI setups vs my AFR195-equipped longtube TPI -- which is how I came to my conclusion. If you don't believe me, take very close notice to my link in post #6. L98tpi wasn't overwhelmed by the selection of AFR's on his long-tube auto-cross Corvette either.

For builds where longtube runners are used, I just think your money is wasted on the higher (highest) flowing heads. Of course, they won't hurt either. FWIW: I don't believe anyone has gone from 195's to 180's (or visa-versa) under a TPI, but EAPro shows slightly better results using the smaller head.

Last-but-not-least, if a reader is using a large-tube FIRST intake, I'd recommend the AFRs. AFAIK, they're the only longtube intake that breaths anywhere near 300cfm.

 

I was talking about these:
http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance...oductId=955896
Not the L31 heads.
They are great "budget" heads. If he wasn't going to get a new intake anyway it would not be a good idea.
I agree with the rest if you want the best then AFR.