Does R-12 Have a future?
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Rainbow Valley Arizona
Does R-12 Have a future?
Well its summer and of course the A/C ran out in my 87'. (not a good thing in AZ.)The stock compressor is leaking from both the drive side and the rear.
R-12 is selling for about $20-$30 for 12 oz. It looks like "new compressor time" anyway.
Would you guys recommend the 134A route? I heard the latter will eventually break down the hoses and seals/O rings in an R-12 system. A rebuilt compressor w/clutch @ Autozone comes R-12 & a 1 yr. warranty and the 134A conversion kit available for more $$.
As always any help is appreciated. ;)
R-12 is selling for about $20-$30 for 12 oz. It looks like "new compressor time" anyway.
Would you guys recommend the 134A route? I heard the latter will eventually break down the hoses and seals/O rings in an R-12 system. A rebuilt compressor w/clutch @ Autozone comes R-12 & a 1 yr. warranty and the 134A conversion kit available for more $$.
As always any help is appreciated. ;)
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Bucks county Pa
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (bogus)
Yes go 134a. R-12 will get more expensive to not only buy but to reclaim, recycle and dispose of. I agree its not as cool they say by only 5* but its noticable when you first put a/c on.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Sarasota FL
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
R-12 has no future in the US. Its production is banned in all of the Global Enviromental Treaty countries.
I work in the Commercial A/C industry and I can asure you that R-134a cools quite well, in a system designed for it. Its BTU/LB heat carring capacity is lower than R-12 but will work fine in the right system.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/.../retrguid.html
Check out this site. If you do it the way it says, you will freeze your butt off. The people that complain about R-134a are those that shortcut the process.
Gm designed the later C-4 cars with the new refrigerant in mind. Earlier cars will work with in about 90% of the R-12 capacity. The problem is an under sized condenser. You can change to a late model three row if you live in Arizona or something like that. Any moderate climate area will probably be OK.
Good luck.
I work in the Commercial A/C industry and I can asure you that R-134a cools quite well, in a system designed for it. Its BTU/LB heat carring capacity is lower than R-12 but will work fine in the right system.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/.../retrguid.html
Check out this site. If you do it the way it says, you will freeze your butt off. The people that complain about R-134a are those that shortcut the process.
Gm designed the later C-4 cars with the new refrigerant in mind. Earlier cars will work with in about 90% of the R-12 capacity. The problem is an under sized condenser. You can change to a late model three row if you live in Arizona or something like that. Any moderate climate area will probably be OK.
Good luck.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Florida
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (bogus)
go 134... there are additives that will make it compatiable with the existing hardware.
the real downside, it does not cool as well as r12...
the real downside, it does not cool as well as r12...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
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Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (BaseballDude)
I work in the Commercial A/C industry and I can asure you that R-134a cools quite well, in a system designed for it. Its BTU/LB heat carring capacity is lower than R-12 but will work fine in the right system.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: NM
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
GM says to use what the system was designed for. So their take is to continue to use R12. Yep it costs more, but you are more then likely looking at a one time expense. Once the system is made right it should last much longer then you will have the car. So you are looking at a one time refergerent cost.
tom...
tom...
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Burning Brakes
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From: Marietta, South Carolina, USA
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
The R-12 was low in my car and I did not want to pay all that money to have it put back in and to do the 134a change would cost me more then I wanted to spend at the time so I went with the Frezz 12 and I really line it and did not cost me to much I think it is like $7 a can.
Jay
Jay
Safety Car
Joined: May 1999
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From: Volcano, HI
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
My AC has never worked well since the conversion to 134. It usually just stops being cold in short order, and heats up my engine something terrible. OTOH, the 134 system in my C5 spews ice cubes! I have yet to try it when it gets really hot. Today would be good, it's supposed to hit 100 today.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Manassas VA
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (Mojo)
My AC has never worked well since the conversion to 134. It usually just stops being cold in short order, and heats up my engine something terrible. OTOH, the 134 system in my C5 spews ice cubes! I have yet to try it when it gets really hot. Today would be good, it's supposed to hit 100 today.
It sounds like you may be overcharged.
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From: Rainbow Valley Arizona
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (DON M)
Thanx for the super fast responses, The epa/gov site was a real help Don M. I will have to find out if the rebuilt compressor is tested with R-12. The article stated that the freon /oil puts on a protective coating which is recommended prior to a 134a retrofit. The additive should also help it last.
Your all a super resourse, which makes this site soooo Great ;)
Your all a super resourse, which makes this site soooo Great ;)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Manassas VA
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (Mojo)
Hmmm. I charged the system from empty... How much should it take?
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Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (bogus)
go 134... there are additives that will make it compatiable with the existing hardware.
the real downside, it does not cool as well as r12...
the real downside, it does not cool as well as r12...
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,691
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From: Framingham MA
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that R134 decreases compressor life. I figuire my original AC has lasted 16 years now, when I redo my AC (which need to be soon as my compressor makes noise), I will redo it with R12.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: San Diego, Ca
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (streets)
Probably not, but with fewer cars relying on R12, the price is going to come down because nobody wants the stuff. Autozone realized this and they've been unloading their R12 inventory since early Spring at $10 to $15 a can. You will need a license, but you can get one online at http://www.epatest. com. Or you could get adventurous and take a road trip to Mexico where it's plentiful and runs 3 bucks a can. (Pray that you don't get caught bringing it back). Keep an eye out for it in your local newspaper. Someone was advertising it a couple of weeks ago in the San Diego newspaper for $150 for a 12 can case or $250 for 36 lb drum. Regardless of what you decide to use, the key to having a good system is to make sure you repair it right. Use quality components and have the right tools which includes a decent Manifold Gauge Set and vacuum pump.
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From: Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin glue Orlando
Re: Does R-12 Have a future? (mikes84vette)
I work in the Commercial A/C industry and I can asure you that R-134a cools quite well, in a system designed for it. Its BTU/LB heat carring capacity is lower than R-12 but will work fine in the right system.
Basically hydrocarbons. Did you know you can charge you’re A/C system with a mix of Propane and Butane and it will far out perform the R-12. Only downside to this is its flammable. Yeah kinda bad, but still cool.
Anyway, you’re going to need all new hoses (Barrier hoses) the R134a molecules are much smaller than the R-12, and they’ll leak right thru the R-12 hoses. You should be able to have them made at your local A/C shop, and a dual pass condenser is a must. Be sure to change the oil in the system, and don’t use PAG oil.
Get a book and try it. It’s a fun project.
:cheers: