Engine will not crank-1993
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
Engine will not crank-1993
I just recently picked up a super nice 1993 coupe with AT. This car has 37K original miles but was inolved in a front end collision. Spent the first part of today getting all of the front end damage off. When I tried to start the engine, SILENCE and the mileage, fuel level, etc. isnt even showing up on the cluster either. Everythig else works as it should, including the radio, heat/AC, antenna, etc.
-Battery is charged
-Fuel is getting to fuel rails.
-Cleaned main fuses behind battery (ECM, Ignition, etc.)
-Checked all secondary fuses on passenger side of dash.
The PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY light is on when I turn the key off, leaving the key in the ignition. Im not too famililar with the PKE feature so this may be what it is supposed to do.
Anyone have any suggestions? Any help is greatly appreciated! I can post a link of a video of the issue if needed.
Aaron
-Battery is charged
-Fuel is getting to fuel rails.
-Cleaned main fuses behind battery (ECM, Ignition, etc.)
-Checked all secondary fuses on passenger side of dash.
The PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY light is on when I turn the key off, leaving the key in the ignition. Im not too famililar with the PKE feature so this may be what it is supposed to do.
Anyone have any suggestions? Any help is greatly appreciated! I can post a link of a video of the issue if needed.
Aaron
Last edited by Cowansauto; Oct 7, 2012 at 02:33 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
I havent checked for codes through the CCM yet. (http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2011...trouble-codes/)
The accident took out everything from the radiator forward. Is it possible that the VATS system is malfunctioning?
Last edited by Cowansauto; Oct 8, 2012 at 02:27 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
I tried the vats bypass method with resistors and plugged it into the wiring going to the module at the column. I unhooked the orange wire at the plug. Still no start.
When the key is turned forward before I turn it to crank, the check gauges wire stays on. When I try to start it, that light still stays on and the red "Brake" light comes on too but goes off when the key is tuned back one click.
I can't check the CCM becaus the center orange screen on the cluster is blank.
When the key is turned forward before I turn it to crank, the check gauges wire stays on. When I try to start it, that light still stays on and the red "Brake" light comes on too but goes off when the key is tuned back one click.
I can't check the CCM becaus the center orange screen on the cluster is blank.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
You need to trace 12v power from the battery to the ignition switch. Almost all electrical devices get power through the ign sw. A 12v test lamp works best over a voltmeter because a voltmeter draws so little current it can measure 12v after a high resistance connection but a 12v lamp will not light. You can at first use a voltmeter which can find an open circuit just as a 12v lamp will. The ign sw gets 12v from the battery through a fusible link then through the firewall connector and then to the ign sw. Most likely the fusible link is blown. You can unplug the ign switch and test for 12v on the connector. When you get 12v to the ign sw post your new symptoms, although they may still be the same.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
From: Glasgow Kentucky
You need to trace 12v power from the battery to the ignition switch. Almost all electrical devices get power through the ign sw. A 12v test lamp works best over a voltmeter because a voltmeter draws so little current it can measure 12v after a high resistance connection but a 12v lamp will not light. You can at first use a voltmeter which can find an open circuit just as a 12v lamp will. The ign sw gets 12v from the battery through a fusible link then through the firewall connector and then to the ign sw. Most likely the fusible link is blown. You can unplug the ign switch and test for 12v on the connector. When you get 12v to the ign sw post your new symptoms, although they may still be the same.
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Brett Foote
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
The 12v power wires on the ign switch connector are red. You can unplug this connector from the ign sw or if your voltmeter probe is sharp enough you can pierce the insulation and see if there is 12v on the red wires.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
From: Glasgow Kentucky
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
From: Glasgow Kentucky
You need to trace 12v power from the battery to the ignition switch. Almost all electrical devices get power through the ign sw. A 12v test lamp works best over a voltmeter because a voltmeter draws so little current it can measure 12v after a high resistance connection but a 12v lamp will not light. You can at first use a voltmeter which can find an open circuit just as a 12v lamp will. The ign sw gets 12v from the battery through a fusible link then through the firewall connector and then to the ign sw. Most likely the fusible link is blown. You can unplug the ign switch and test for 12v on the connector. When you get 12v to the ign sw post your new symptoms, although they may still be the same.
I even replaced the starter relay with a new one and still the same no crank symptom. If you ground the black/yellow wire coming out of the starter relay to the dash frame, the engine will crank but not start.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
Took the car up to a friends shop to use his nice Snap On readers. It showed an ABS code that said Code 0072 Serial Data Link Failure.
So in a nutshell here's what I have observed:
-Fuel pump works when key is turned and fuel is present at rail
-Center digital dash section is blank (Pictures show it worked at some point at the auction before I bought it)
-The rear trunk lights stay on constantly when battery is charged and then it drains battery down making it necessary to hook a charger up again
-Engine will crank if relay is shorted to ground or if starter posts are
Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated!
So in a nutshell here's what I have observed:
-Fuel pump works when key is turned and fuel is present at rail
-Center digital dash section is blank (Pictures show it worked at some point at the auction before I bought it)
-The rear trunk lights stay on constantly when battery is charged and then it drains battery down making it necessary to hook a charger up again
-Engine will crank if relay is shorted to ground or if starter posts are
Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
From: Glasgow Kentucky
The wires seem okay. I haven't checked them with a multimeter or anything. The battery wasn't pushed back at all from the collision so I don't think any of the wires were pinched. There are some loose wires on the left front end from the damage but None are touching each other though.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,621
Likes: 206
From: Orlando FL
Forget VATS, it will not cause the dash not to light up. The ECM is not the problem. You have a global voltage problem. The CCM is involved in starting the car, VATS and lighting portions of the dash. You need to solve why the dash is dead first.
Checking the ignition switch was definitely a good idea and a good place to start.
I would first check the 2 boxes of fuse links and all wiring related to them.
Pull fuse #27 (cluster) and #35 (CCM) and see if there is voltage on one of the terminals in the block for the fuse (ignition switch on). (inside car)
Checking the ignition switch was definitely a good idea and a good place to start.
I would first check the 2 boxes of fuse links and all wiring related to them.
Pull fuse #27 (cluster) and #35 (CCM) and see if there is voltage on one of the terminals in the block for the fuse (ignition switch on). (inside car)
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
***update***update***update***update***
Here's the codes that come up:
C12, --- (1.) Screen
H41, --- (4.) Screen
H64, H72, H73, --- (9.) Screen
Of course I just plugged the other CCM and didnt have the mileage or any other programming changed to match my original car.
Now I can get the car to crank with the key if I run a jumper wire to the black/yellow wire to ground.
VIDEO: http://youtu.be/aIvBqnYW4d0
Last edited by Cowansauto; Oct 24, 2012 at 01:56 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,556
Likes: 13
Your car is unlikely to start with it because there were 15 different key resistor values used so you have a 1 in 15 chance
of your existing key matching what is required by the temp CCM
unrelated to the CCM which only operates the relay which you over rode in both cases by grounding it to close the contacts and supply power to the starter
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
Likes: 4
From: Glasgow Kentucky
Your car is unlikely to start with it because there were 15 different key resistor values used so you have a 1 in 15 chance
of your existing key matching what is required by the temp CCM
Something wrong there because power to the relay coil comes from the ign switch ;
unrelated to the CCM which only operates the relay which you over rode in both cases by grounding it to close the contacts and supply power to the starter
of your existing key matching what is required by the temp CCM
Something wrong there because power to the relay coil comes from the ign switch ;
unrelated to the CCM which only operates the relay which you over rode in both cases by grounding it to close the contacts and supply power to the starter
1. Noticed broken wire connector on ignition coil module. Replaced the module and re-installed.
2. I can get the engine to crank with the key in the start position by jumping the wires at terminals 87 (large Purple) & 30 ( Large Yellow) together Or by grounding a wire to terminal 85 (black/yellow wire).
3. I havent verified spark when the engine is turning over by either of the methods above. I had fuel pressure during one of the methods but I cant remember which one if this matters?
4. I'll try to borrow a local shops VATS Interogator within the next few days to find the resistance of the key I need to use
Last edited by Cowansauto; Oct 24, 2012 at 02:03 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 181
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From: Glasgow Kentucky
So I went ahead and pulled the motor and transmission without getting it to fully start and run with the key as normal. Didnt really want to do that but I had to start stripping the car down.
