How safe is a C4?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: Houston TX
How safe is a C4?
I'm thinking about buying a C4 but one thing I wonder about is safety, not so much because I'm worried about myself, but passengers.
From this thread it seems like the cabin is pretty strong and there is a decent crumple zone up front. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...rash-test.html
Also, I think I'll stick with 1994+ so I get a passenger airbag.
But what about side impact? I've seen someone mention in another thread that the doors provide no protection. Don't they have side impact beams? And if a jacked up truck hits you above the beltline, will the halo and windshield header keep you from being decapitated?
From this thread it seems like the cabin is pretty strong and there is a decent crumple zone up front. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...rash-test.html
Also, I think I'll stick with 1994+ so I get a passenger airbag.
But what about side impact? I've seen someone mention in another thread that the doors provide no protection. Don't they have side impact beams? And if a jacked up truck hits you above the beltline, will the halo and windshield header keep you from being decapitated?
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,337
Likes: 2,266
From: Central Maryland
It's possible to get maimed or killed in any vehicle, but the C4 is surprisingly crash-worthy for a car of its size.
Yes, there are steel beams in the doors, and I can attest to how well they work. Eight years ago, I took a pretty good shot from a Z28 Camaro into the driver's door of my '94 convertible. The steel beam in that door kept the bumper of that Camaro out of my ribcage and off of my lap. I walked away from the crash, and the damage was confined to the door and its internals. The top of the door yawned open on impact, the window glass exploded and fragments erupted from within like a volcano. The door was destroyed, but I survived and so did the rest of the car.
In the same car, I also took a shot to the rear from a Toyota Tundra pickup truck, and the car did amazingly well in that crash, too.
All told, my '94 has been hit four times while I've owned it -- twice hard and twice superficially. I sometimes think there must be a target painted on that car that only I can't see. But after all of the repairs, the car still looks almost new, and drives just fine. The only clue that the car has ever been hit is the absence of the VIN and tire info decals on the door.
Some folks have died in C4 crashes, but a lot have also walked away from some pretty horrific crashes.
If you submarine a tractor-trailer at speed, you'll probably lose your head, but that's probably true of many other cars you might drive, as well.
Live well,
SJW
Yes, there are steel beams in the doors, and I can attest to how well they work. Eight years ago, I took a pretty good shot from a Z28 Camaro into the driver's door of my '94 convertible. The steel beam in that door kept the bumper of that Camaro out of my ribcage and off of my lap. I walked away from the crash, and the damage was confined to the door and its internals. The top of the door yawned open on impact, the window glass exploded and fragments erupted from within like a volcano. The door was destroyed, but I survived and so did the rest of the car.
In the same car, I also took a shot to the rear from a Toyota Tundra pickup truck, and the car did amazingly well in that crash, too.
All told, my '94 has been hit four times while I've owned it -- twice hard and twice superficially. I sometimes think there must be a target painted on that car that only I can't see. But after all of the repairs, the car still looks almost new, and drives just fine. The only clue that the car has ever been hit is the absence of the VIN and tire info decals on the door.
Some folks have died in C4 crashes, but a lot have also walked away from some pretty horrific crashes.
If you submarine a tractor-trailer at speed, you'll probably lose your head, but that's probably true of many other cars you might drive, as well.
Live well,
SJW
Last edited by SJW; Oct 22, 2012 at 09:27 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 22
I can speak on the side impact survivability of the C4...an 87 to be exact...
Thanksgiving day about 2001 I was going to run by my office to do a couple things before getting involved in the holiday....
As I was making a left under a green arrow to turnacross traffic, an older gentlemen came down the hill approaching me head on...the speed limit there was 45 mph. He missed the red lite (ran a red) at my intersection and hadn't slowed 1mph as he entered the intersection where I was then broadside...my right side exposed to his angry camery. The impact spun the Vette 3 times...enough tire smoke to make me believe there was a fire when the motion stopped. I bailed and rolled out of the car and scrambled to get away from it. Once I realized that it was only tire smoke I went to look at the damage and to see if the other driver was ok or not. He was shaken and stunned from his air bag but otherwise ok.
The damage:
The impact was on my R rear wheel, and the rear door jam/door. The impact was so severe that it actually moved the rear diff carrier sideways and the C beam broke the trans OD housing...fluid pouring on the ground. The drivers door was INTACT...you could see obvious damage to the door jam but the window was NOT broken, nor was there a crater in the cabin. The door was soft, with the SMP door panels now fractured but still intact. I elected to repair the car. It looked worse than it was...I bought a new door so I didn;t have to "skin" the old door and show that it had been repaired. Tattletale sign is a new door skin...
I repaired the door jam by the layering and building up of fiber glass and painstaking sanding and making jigs based on other door jams so the multi-angle door jam was exact.
I replaced some bent rear suspension. Got a new trans housing and installed that. No bent frame, no distortion in the body seams. The car absorbed a helluva impact and the damage was moderate but not extreme. Repaired in just a few weeks after work and on weekends.I got pretty good with fiber glass and SMP resins...(nasty, sticky messy stuff)
People have this misconception. Its born of ignorance and old wives tales about being splintered to death with fiber glass and the like. Its BUNK. Pure unadulterated BS. The ONLY fragments of my accident, the ONLY pieces of my car that separated from my car was the trans fluid that leaked on the ground. That was a 45 mph impact near perfectly broadside while I was barely moving.
I honestly would not like to think about doing that in some other vehicle that was metal and didn;t rebound or absorb stress like the plastic does...
Oh yeah, I had a 1/4" ding in the bead of the RR wheel...and a tiny surface crack in the aluminum bead,. something that I didn;t get repaired and drove on for another 5 yrs before selling those wheels.
To simplify,
take a piece of aluminum foil and one of the tupperware bowls in the cabnet. Now crush both.
Which one tries to resume its original shape and disposition? Thats the one you want to be in.
Thanksgiving day about 2001 I was going to run by my office to do a couple things before getting involved in the holiday....
As I was making a left under a green arrow to turnacross traffic, an older gentlemen came down the hill approaching me head on...the speed limit there was 45 mph. He missed the red lite (ran a red) at my intersection and hadn't slowed 1mph as he entered the intersection where I was then broadside...my right side exposed to his angry camery. The impact spun the Vette 3 times...enough tire smoke to make me believe there was a fire when the motion stopped. I bailed and rolled out of the car and scrambled to get away from it. Once I realized that it was only tire smoke I went to look at the damage and to see if the other driver was ok or not. He was shaken and stunned from his air bag but otherwise ok.
The damage:
The impact was on my R rear wheel, and the rear door jam/door. The impact was so severe that it actually moved the rear diff carrier sideways and the C beam broke the trans OD housing...fluid pouring on the ground. The drivers door was INTACT...you could see obvious damage to the door jam but the window was NOT broken, nor was there a crater in the cabin. The door was soft, with the SMP door panels now fractured but still intact. I elected to repair the car. It looked worse than it was...I bought a new door so I didn;t have to "skin" the old door and show that it had been repaired. Tattletale sign is a new door skin...
I repaired the door jam by the layering and building up of fiber glass and painstaking sanding and making jigs based on other door jams so the multi-angle door jam was exact.
I replaced some bent rear suspension. Got a new trans housing and installed that. No bent frame, no distortion in the body seams. The car absorbed a helluva impact and the damage was moderate but not extreme. Repaired in just a few weeks after work and on weekends.I got pretty good with fiber glass and SMP resins...(nasty, sticky messy stuff)
People have this misconception. Its born of ignorance and old wives tales about being splintered to death with fiber glass and the like. Its BUNK. Pure unadulterated BS. The ONLY fragments of my accident, the ONLY pieces of my car that separated from my car was the trans fluid that leaked on the ground. That was a 45 mph impact near perfectly broadside while I was barely moving.
I honestly would not like to think about doing that in some other vehicle that was metal and didn;t rebound or absorb stress like the plastic does...
Oh yeah, I had a 1/4" ding in the bead of the RR wheel...and a tiny surface crack in the aluminum bead,. something that I didn;t get repaired and drove on for another 5 yrs before selling those wheels.
To simplify,
take a piece of aluminum foil and one of the tupperware bowls in the cabnet. Now crush both.
Which one tries to resume its original shape and disposition? Thats the one you want to be in.
Last edited by leesvet; Oct 22, 2012 at 09:57 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: Houston TX
Interesting-- it sounds like the structure is pretty strong, with the main liability being how low the car is. Modern cars have airbags to protect your head, but unfortunately old cars don't.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 895
Likes: 91
From: Poughkeepsie, NY
I can speak on the side impact survivability of the C4...an 87 to be exact...
Thanksgiving day about 2001 I was going to run by my office to do a couple things before getting involved in the holiday....
As I was making a left under a green arrow to turnacross traffic, an older gentlemen came down the hill approaching me head on...the speed limit there was 45 mph. He missed the red lite (ran a red) at my intersection and hadn't slowed 1mph as he entered the intersection where I was then broadside...my right side exposed to his angry camery. The impact spun the Vette 3 times...enough tire smoke to make me believe there was a fire when the motion stopped. I bailed and rolled out of the car and scrambled to get away from it. Once I realized that it was only tire smoke I went to look at the damage and to see if the other driver was ok or not. He was shaken and stunned from his air bag but otherwise ok.
The damage:
The impact was on my R rear wheel, and the rear door jam/door. The impact was so severe that it actually moved the rear diff carrier sideways and the C beam broke the trans OD housing...fluid pouring on the ground. The drivers door was INTACT...you could see obvious damage to the door jam but the window was NOT broken, nor was there a crater in the cabin. The door was soft, with the SMP door panels now fractured but still intact. I elected to repair the car. It looked worse than it was...I bought a new door so I didn;t have to "skin" the old door and show that it had been repaired. Tattletale sign is a new door skin...
I repaired the door jam by the layering and building up of fiber glass and painstaking sanding and making jigs based on other door jams so the multi-angle door jam was exact.
I replaced some bent rear suspension. Got a new trans housing and installed that. No bent frame, no distortion in the body seams. The car absorbed a helluva impact and the damage was moderate but not extreme. Repaired in just a few weeks after work and on weekends.I got pretty good with fiber glass and SMP resins...(nasty, sticky messy stuff)
People have this misconception. Its born of ignorance and old wives tales about being splintered to death with fiber glass and the like. Its BUNK. Pure unadulterated BS. The ONLY fragments of my accident, the ONLY pieces of my car that separated from my car was the trans fluid that leaked on the ground. That was a 45 mph impact near perfectly broadside while I was barely moving.
I honestly would not like to think about doing that in some other vehicle that was metal and didn;t rebound or absorb stress like the plastic does...
Oh yeah, I had a 1/4" ding in the bead of the RR wheel...and a tiny surface crack in the aluminum bead,. something that I didn;t get repaired and drove on for another 5 yrs before selling those wheels.
To simplify,
take a piece of aluminum foil and one of the tupperware bowls in the cabnet. Now crush both.
Which one tries to resume its original shape and disposition? Thats the one you want to be in.
Thanksgiving day about 2001 I was going to run by my office to do a couple things before getting involved in the holiday....
As I was making a left under a green arrow to turnacross traffic, an older gentlemen came down the hill approaching me head on...the speed limit there was 45 mph. He missed the red lite (ran a red) at my intersection and hadn't slowed 1mph as he entered the intersection where I was then broadside...my right side exposed to his angry camery. The impact spun the Vette 3 times...enough tire smoke to make me believe there was a fire when the motion stopped. I bailed and rolled out of the car and scrambled to get away from it. Once I realized that it was only tire smoke I went to look at the damage and to see if the other driver was ok or not. He was shaken and stunned from his air bag but otherwise ok.
The damage:
The impact was on my R rear wheel, and the rear door jam/door. The impact was so severe that it actually moved the rear diff carrier sideways and the C beam broke the trans OD housing...fluid pouring on the ground. The drivers door was INTACT...you could see obvious damage to the door jam but the window was NOT broken, nor was there a crater in the cabin. The door was soft, with the SMP door panels now fractured but still intact. I elected to repair the car. It looked worse than it was...I bought a new door so I didn;t have to "skin" the old door and show that it had been repaired. Tattletale sign is a new door skin...
I repaired the door jam by the layering and building up of fiber glass and painstaking sanding and making jigs based on other door jams so the multi-angle door jam was exact.
I replaced some bent rear suspension. Got a new trans housing and installed that. No bent frame, no distortion in the body seams. The car absorbed a helluva impact and the damage was moderate but not extreme. Repaired in just a few weeks after work and on weekends.I got pretty good with fiber glass and SMP resins...(nasty, sticky messy stuff)
People have this misconception. Its born of ignorance and old wives tales about being splintered to death with fiber glass and the like. Its BUNK. Pure unadulterated BS. The ONLY fragments of my accident, the ONLY pieces of my car that separated from my car was the trans fluid that leaked on the ground. That was a 45 mph impact near perfectly broadside while I was barely moving.
I honestly would not like to think about doing that in some other vehicle that was metal and didn;t rebound or absorb stress like the plastic does...
Oh yeah, I had a 1/4" ding in the bead of the RR wheel...and a tiny surface crack in the aluminum bead,. something that I didn;t get repaired and drove on for another 5 yrs before selling those wheels.
To simplify,
take a piece of aluminum foil and one of the tupperware bowls in the cabnet. Now crush both.
Which one tries to resume its original shape and disposition? Thats the one you want to be in.
Unlike steel, as fiberglass cracks and shatters it is expells much of the energy from the crash. Its like when you hit one of those sand filled highway barriers.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Johnstown Penna
I would say that a C4 is no more dangerous than having unprotected sex with a girl you just met in Vegas....
If someone in a jacked up truck t bones you, yep... you are probably gonna end up with your head all goopy and smashed up, but I am thinking there will still be tissue attached. Maybe not enough for an open casket funeral, but I think most of your head will stay attached to your body. At least enough for someone to identify your remains.
If it is your time, or if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there isn't a damn thing you or anybody else can do to help you. Sucks that it is that way, but it is. You can either live your life afraid to die, or you can live your life like today is your last, because it very well could be.
If safety is your top priority, maybe a C4 isn't your answer.... Volvo's have a wonderful crash rating. And you can put a LT1 motor in an older Volvo.... But the extra weight up front makes them less safe.... Don't know what to tell you kind sir, except that this post is supposed to be taken with a light heart, I have a strange sense of humor!
If someone in a jacked up truck t bones you, yep... you are probably gonna end up with your head all goopy and smashed up, but I am thinking there will still be tissue attached. Maybe not enough for an open casket funeral, but I think most of your head will stay attached to your body. At least enough for someone to identify your remains.
If it is your time, or if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there isn't a damn thing you or anybody else can do to help you. Sucks that it is that way, but it is. You can either live your life afraid to die, or you can live your life like today is your last, because it very well could be.
If safety is your top priority, maybe a C4 isn't your answer.... Volvo's have a wonderful crash rating. And you can put a LT1 motor in an older Volvo.... But the extra weight up front makes them less safe.... Don't know what to tell you kind sir, except that this post is supposed to be taken with a light heart, I have a strange sense of humor!
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
I would say that a C4 is no more dangerous than having unprotected sex with a girl you just met in Vegas....
If someone in a jacked up truck t bones you, yep... you are probably gonna end up with your head all goopy and smashed up, but I am thinking there will still be tissue attached. Maybe not enough for an open casket funeral, but I think most of your head will stay attached to your body. At least enough for someone to identify your remains.
If it is your time, or if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there isn't a damn thing you or anybody else can do to help you. Sucks that it is that way, but it is. You can either live your life afraid to die, or you can live your life like today is your last, because it very well could be.
If safety is your top priority, maybe a C4 isn't your answer.... Volvo's have a wonderful crash rating. And you can put a LT1 motor in an older Volvo.... But the extra weight up front makes them less safe.... Don't know what to tell you kind sir, except that this post is supposed to be taken with a light heart, I have a strange sense of humor!
If someone in a jacked up truck t bones you, yep... you are probably gonna end up with your head all goopy and smashed up, but I am thinking there will still be tissue attached. Maybe not enough for an open casket funeral, but I think most of your head will stay attached to your body. At least enough for someone to identify your remains.
If it is your time, or if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there isn't a damn thing you or anybody else can do to help you. Sucks that it is that way, but it is. You can either live your life afraid to die, or you can live your life like today is your last, because it very well could be.
If safety is your top priority, maybe a C4 isn't your answer.... Volvo's have a wonderful crash rating. And you can put a LT1 motor in an older Volvo.... But the extra weight up front makes them less safe.... Don't know what to tell you kind sir, except that this post is supposed to be taken with a light heart, I have a strange sense of humor!
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
With all the talk of air bags, crumple zones and such we have overlooked a major safety feature of the C4...it's great handling & good responsiveness. Combine these with an alert driver and you will not need the other "safety features", IMO.
Personally, I would not buy a Vette newer than '89 as that is the last year w/o DS air bag. I mean, I already have a seat/shoulder belt so there is no reason for all the air bag junk.
Personally, I would not buy a Vette newer than '89 as that is the last year w/o DS air bag. I mean, I already have a seat/shoulder belt so there is no reason for all the air bag junk.
Last edited by 65Z01; Oct 23, 2012 at 05:15 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,752
Likes: 190
From: Indiana PA
With all the talk of air bags, crumple zones and such we have overlooked a major safety feature of the C4...it's great handling & good responsiveness. Combine these with an alert driver and you will not need the other "safety features", IMO.
Personally, I would not buy a Vette newer than '89 as that is the last year w/o DS air bag. I mean, I already have a seat/shoulder belt so there is no reason for all the air bag junk.
Personally, I would not buy a Vette newer than '89 as that is the last year w/o DS air bag. I mean, I already have a seat/shoulder belt so there is no reason for all the air bag junk.
and Amen. The best crash is the one avoided in the first place.Air bags only do about 2% of life saving in an accident. Wearing your seat belt and sitting properly is 98% of the life saving in an accident.
SUPPLEMENTAL Restraint System is the official title- SRS for short, Aka Air Bags.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
and Amen. The best crash is the one avoided in the first place.Air bags only do about 2% of life saving in an accident. Wearing your seat belt and sitting properly is 98% of the life saving in an accident.
SUPPLEMENTAL Restraint System is the official title- SRS for short, Aka Air Bags.
The most important safety feature of any car is the driver! All the airbags in the world won't save an idiot.
My post from yesterday on the subject: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-g...ain-today.html
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
Likes: 2
From: Houston TX
and Amen. The best crash is the one avoided in the first place.Air bags only do about 2% of life saving in an accident. Wearing your seat belt and sitting properly is 98% of the life saving in an accident.
SUPPLEMENTAL Restraint System is the official title- SRS for short, Aka Air Bags.
I think I'm an "aware" driver and I haven't had an accident for about 8 years, but accidents do happen. I might reconsider the C4 if I did a lot of city driving, but it's going to be mostly open highway and backroads-- I take the park & ride to downtown Houston
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
I disagree on the handling helping. The same great handling that helps you avoid a crash is the same fun driving experience that gets you carried away and causing a wreck. If you were driving a Prius you wouldn't be horsing around.
I've never seen one flip though. The door reinforcement was more stout in the early years, and they actually reduced it (weight savings?) in 88-89 ish. They do tend to go under vehicles/barriers easily though. I wouldn't want to be following an 18 wheeler and get rear ended by a drunk in a F250. Lots of pictures online of corvettes with vehicles sitting on top of them. Look up wreckedexotics.com for some examples. The newer vettes on there carry the same risks, despite airbags and other features.
I've never seen one flip though. The door reinforcement was more stout in the early years, and they actually reduced it (weight savings?) in 88-89 ish. They do tend to go under vehicles/barriers easily though. I wouldn't want to be following an 18 wheeler and get rear ended by a drunk in a F250. Lots of pictures online of corvettes with vehicles sitting on top of them. Look up wreckedexotics.com for some examples. The newer vettes on there carry the same risks, despite airbags and other features.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
If it is your time, or if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, there isn't a damn thing you or anybody else can do to help you. Sucks that it is that way, but it is. You can either live your life afraid to die, or you can live your life like today is your last, because it very well could be.
There are some basic things you can do to avoid being 30 and in a casket, but I agree, living a little is still worth it, even if it might kill you. There are worse things you could do, like get gonorrhea in a 3rd world country, or going stunting on a GSXR1000.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,139
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From: H-Town Texas
Last edited by lt4obsesses; Oct 24, 2012 at 02:00 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Johnstown Penna
You sound like the Harley riders without helmets.
There are some basic things you can do to avoid being 30 and in a casket, but I agree, living a little is still worth it, even if it might kill you. There are worse things you could do, like get gonorrhea in a 3rd world country, or going stunting on a GSXR1000.
There are some basic things you can do to avoid being 30 and in a casket, but I agree, living a little is still worth it, even if it might kill you. There are worse things you could do, like get gonorrhea in a 3rd world country, or going stunting on a GSXR1000.
I should... I haven't worn my helmet since I took my license test. Reason? I found out that to be DOT certified, a helmet must take a rediculously low impact, like around 18 miles an hour or so... Not much help at normal responsible riding speeds, unless we are talking about the open casket again.... So I don't bother with it.
One thing I never worried about was the clap... That is what they make penicillin for, and if she is smokin hot and more importantly interested in having some adult fun with me, then I can always make an appointment with my good doctor after the fire drips get started! Haven't had to worry about that for a long time, I am unfortunately happily married
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: Johnstown Penna
Bottom line is this I guess.... Every crash can be attributed to a problem between the steering wheel and the seat... You just have to hope that your vehicle doesn't have a big target on it when the problem happens, or that you aren't the problem in the first place.
Again, if it's your time, I hope you have the sense to bend over and kiss your *** goodbye! And make sure you tell those that you love that you love them every chance you get, the next time could be the last...
Again, if it's your time, I hope you have the sense to bend over and kiss your *** goodbye! And make sure you tell those that you love that you love them every chance you get, the next time could be the last...