C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

To mod or not to mod?

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Old Nov 1, 2012 | 07:00 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by pmihaltian
You have a very low mileage completely stock early C4. Believe it or not, cars like this are getting pretty hard to find and will become even more difficult to find over time.

Accordingly, I suggest that you keep it stock. Purchase a set of wheels for it and put your new BFG's on the new wheels for daily driving. Install the original tires on the original wheels and put them up in your garage for shows and NCRS judging.

Once you modify this car, it will be very expensive and time consuming to bring it back to original condition with the correct date coded parts. Ask me how I know .
I have nice stock rims and just put new tires on them. I let the tire store have my original tires

Maybe I will give them a call tomorrow and see if they still have them...
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Old Nov 2, 2012 | 03:38 PM
  #22  
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With your low mileage I would not touch the engine your vette will be good for another 180,000 miles. Just keep it looking good and repair any little things. Everybody says that computer chips don't do anything so don't bother with that or an air foil. Keep it in tune and enjoy. People don't seem to race anymore anyway. If your sun visors start to get floppy you could just remove them a lot of people do especially if your tall.
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Old Nov 2, 2012 | 05:03 PM
  #23  
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MOD!!!!!!

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Old Nov 2, 2012 | 05:07 PM
  #24  
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Except for the polished aluminum ZR1 spec wheels (and tires), all of my mods have been 'under cover'.

Long tube headers, cat delete, x-pipe, and stainless chambered mufflers from Stainless Works.
Replaced all of the external and internal light bulbs with LED, and the fog lamps with HID.

Cleaned and polished her, and that is it.
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Old Nov 2, 2012 | 11:35 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 87C4_4spd
I bought my 1987 Vette this month and it only has 12800 miles.
87 vette's are not rare

87 vettes (or any c4) with extremely low miles are extremely rare.

keep it as stock as possible, that alone will be enough of a challenge.

whenever c4's begin to appreciate your's will already be ahead of the curve.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 01:00 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mtwoolford
87 vette's are not rare

87 vettes (or any c4) with extremely low miles are extremely rare.

keep it as stock as possible, that alone will be enough of a challenge.

whenever c4's begin to appreciate your's will already be ahead of the curve.
If it hasn't already been done, you'll be spending several thousand over the next 50k [driven] miles. That's to keep in the same condition it sits now. You have a 25-yr-old car -- and will be passing thru the same deterioration I went thru when I bought a 10-yr-old 89 with the same mileage.

That's assuming you want to drive it as even a partial daily driver.

These things are old and getting older. It may be that a 35-yr-old 87 might be higher than what you paid today. I'm betting you'll spend MORE just keeping it for that resale.

The choice is whether to cherish and pay for the upkeep of a low-mile specimen -- while you rarely drive it! You're paying to keep the car FOR THE NEXT GUY!

Do you want that? Does that sound like your vision?

If not, that car is going to deteriorate. I guarantee it. I've seen what happens -- even when garage-parked and driven less than 10 miles to work -- only on nice days.

The weatherstrip will go, every seal will leak or look ancient, the interior will dry out, crack, peel, and shrink. I'm betting the seat foam will break down too. Then there's injectors and the PITA procedure you have to do -- just to GET to them!

How about the A/C unit? Power steering...and maybe the rack? Atari dash? Do you have auto A/C controls and their flaky control boards? Door pin switches? Headliner, waterpump, and lots of little appearance issues too.

Wanna talk about 30-yr-old paint? Ever look at a pristine 30-yr-original paint job compared to brand new?

Folks...Anyone here KIDDING themselves into thinking a [BASE] C4 is any kind of investment...something to save like a timecapsule AND RARELY DRIVE, is in for a shock. At the very least a reality check.

As mentioned ealier, don't miss out on the chance to really enjoy the car. Keep any mods tasteful and it will always be sellable. Just don't treat it like the Corvette's of old.

It's not the rare sought-after big-block, high-horsepower "mid-year" specimen of the past. Our C4's were made in a age where GM was fighting the battle between mileage, power, emissions, and lots of other crap. These cars are fun, they corner, and they're quick -- but they're not fast or revered. People just aren't impressed with a lower, mid, and even upper 200rwhp. It takes at LT4, GS, Callaway, or ZR-1 to get ANYONE's attention who's got real money to spend.

So, it's time to pick....Do you want the car for YOUR enjoyment? Or, do you want to spend lots of time/money keeping it pristine for the next guy?

You know...that guy that wants to but a 30-yr-old 35k mile specimen and will only pay $6k for it. Remember it'll be aging, low-horsepower, and just getting into electrical issues that will make you learn the car inside/out OR regret that you bought it.

Life ain't fair....it's a CHALLENGE!

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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 09:32 AM
  #27  
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I got into the c-4 market 6 months ago and it took me that long to find what i was looking for.I drove a few nice low mileage stock c4s and they were not for me,nothing wrong with them just not for me.I had to tow 500 miles to buy it, but the 427-zf 6-speed and dana 44 rear were mods i did not have to make.Car was done and a 1/3ed of the price if had built it. If you are happy with your car, its your car,but i must vote for mods. cant worry about the c-4 market, it is what it is.Enjoy it in any form you choose.Now if i can find the money for a pro/charger..lol Dennis
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 10:37 AM
  #28  
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I am going to do some mods. I just put some Flomaster mufflers on with the stainless tips. A little better sound and the tips look nicer that stock.

The next big one is an updated stereo with Bluetooth and USB. Other than that not going to do too much more.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 12:24 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GREGGPENN
If it hasn't already been done, you'll be spending several thousand over the next 50k [driven] miles. That's to keep in the same condition it sits now. You have a 25-yr-old car -- and will be passing thru the same deterioration I went thru when I bought a 10-yr-old 89 with the same mileage.

That's assuming you want to drive it as even a partial daily driver.

These things are old and getting older. It may be that a 35-yr-old 87 might be higher than what you paid today. I'm betting you'll spend MORE just keeping it for that resale.

The choice is whether to cherish and pay for the upkeep of a low-mile specimen -- while you rarely drive it! You're paying to keep the car FOR THE NEXT GUY!

Do you want that? Does that sound like your vision?

If not, that car is going to deteriorate. I guarantee it. I've seen what happens -- even when garage-parked and driven less than 10 miles to work -- only on nice days.

The weatherstrip will go, every seal will leak or look ancient, the interior will dry out, crack, peel, and shrink. I'm betting the seat foam will break down too. Then there's injectors and the PITA procedure you have to do -- just to GET to them!

How about the A/C unit? Power steering...and maybe the rack? Atari dash? Do you have auto A/C controls and their flaky control boards? Door pin switches? Headliner, waterpump, and lots of little appearance issues too.

Wanna talk about 30-yr-old paint? Ever look at a pristine 30-yr-original paint job compared to brand new?

Folks...Anyone here KIDDING themselves into thinking a [BASE] C4 is any kind of investment...something to save like a timecapsule AND RARELY DRIVE, is in for a shock. At the very least a reality check.

As mentioned ealier, don't miss out on the chance to really enjoy the car. Keep any mods tasteful and it will always be sellable. Just don't treat it like the Corvette's of old.

It's not the rare sought-after big-block, high-horsepower "mid-year" specimen of the past. Our C4's were made in a age where GM was fighting the battle between mileage, power, emissions, and lots of other crap. These cars are fun, they corner, and they're quick -- but they're not fast or revered. People just aren't impressed with a lower, mid, and even upper 200rwhp. It takes at LT4, GS, Callaway, or ZR-1 to get ANYONE's attention who's got real money to spend.

So, it's time to pick....Do you want the car for YOUR enjoyment? Or, do you want to spend lots of time/money keeping it pristine for the next guy?

You know...that guy that wants to but a 30-yr-old 35k mile specimen and will only pay $6k for it. Remember it'll be aging, low-horsepower, and just getting into electrical issues that will make you learn the car inside/out OR regret that you bought it.

Life ain't fair....it's a CHALLENGE!



Couldn't have said it better myself. I "saved" a car once only to sell it for nothing to the "next guy". NEVER AGAIN will I do that. My 89 is in great shape with thousands of $$$ in mods that I will NEVER get back. I have considered selling it before, but knowing I will only get 5k for this car...no thanks, I will just keep it and run the snot out of it while taking reasonable care of it. It looks stock, but will turn mid 12's all day long. Plus, I still love the car regardless of what it is worth.

As for your 87, I would throw on a full exhaust, some simple yet effective mods then go drive it and have fun.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 12:56 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by slickfx3
leave it alone, you'll regret it.
With basic mods how so ??? There is plenty to gain with the basics
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 02:03 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GREGGPENN
If it hasn't already been done, you'll be spending several thousand over the next 50k [driven] miles. That's to keep in the same condition it sits now. You have a 25-yr-old car -- and will be passing thru the same deterioration I went thru when I bought a 10-yr-old 89 with the same mileage.

That's assuming you want to drive it as even a partial daily driver.

These things are old and getting older. It may be that a 35-yr-old 87 might be higher than what you paid today. I'm betting you'll spend MORE just keeping it for that resale.

The choice is whether to cherish and pay for the upkeep of a low-mile specimen -- while you rarely drive it! You're paying to keep the car FOR THE NEXT GUY!

Do you want that? Does that sound like your vision?

If not, that car is going to deteriorate. I guarantee it. I've seen what happens -- even when garage-parked and driven less than 10 miles to work -- only on nice days.

The weatherstrip will go, every seal will leak or look ancient, the interior will dry out, crack, peel, and shrink. I'm betting the seat foam will break down too. Then there's injectors and the PITA procedure you have to do -- just to GET to them!

How about the A/C unit? Power steering...and maybe the rack? Atari dash? Do you have auto A/C controls and their flaky control boards? Door pin switches? Headliner, waterpump, and lots of little appearance issues too.

Wanna talk about 30-yr-old paint? Ever look at a pristine 30-yr-original paint job compared to brand new?

Folks...Anyone here KIDDING themselves into thinking a [BASE] C4 is any kind of investment...something to save like a timecapsule AND RARELY DRIVE, is in for a shock. At the very least a reality check.

As mentioned ealier, don't miss out on the chance to really enjoy the car. Keep any mods tasteful and it will always be sellable. Just don't treat it like the Corvette's of old.

It's not the rare sought-after big-block, high-horsepower "mid-year" specimen of the past. Our C4's were made in a age where GM was fighting the battle between mileage, power, emissions, and lots of other crap. These cars are fun, they corner, and they're quick -- but they're not fast or revered. People just aren't impressed with a lower, mid, and even upper 200rwhp. It takes at LT4, GS, Callaway, or ZR-1 to get ANYONE's attention who's got real money to spend.

So, it's time to pick....Do you want the car for YOUR enjoyment? Or, do you want to spend lots of time/money keeping it pristine for the next guy?

You know...that guy that wants to but a 30-yr-old 35k mile specimen and will only pay $6k for it. Remember it'll be aging, low-horsepower, and just getting into electrical issues that will make you learn the car inside/out OR regret that you bought it.

Life ain't fair....it's a CHALLENGE!

Yeah I am 55 so I am going to enjoy the car. I won't be driving it much because I have 1 1/2 years left on my leased daily driver. I also have a like new 2002 Dale Earnhardt Monte Carlo in the garage with 1,025 miles. No leaks no seals cracked in either the Vette or the Monte.

I will enjoy it but not drive in the rain, snow or salt. I was a mechanic so that helps. Right now it needs nothing. I already did all the maintenance.
By the time these are worth much I will be too old to enjoy it

My AC controls are the old manual slide ones. I don't have the auto ones. This car has less electronics than my 2002 Monte Carlo. The paint looks great right now and I will keep it waxed and it should hold up to meet my needs. Who know I might get a bug in me to sell it at some point.

Thanks for all the input everyone.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 03:55 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by slickfx3
leave it alone, you'll regret it.
From another recent thread....
Originally Posted by slickfx3
go big or go prius
Dual personality?
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 04:09 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 87C4_4spd
Yeah I am 55 so I am going to enjoy the car. I won't be driving it much because I have 1 1/2 years left on my leased daily driver. I also have a like new 2002 Dale Earnhardt Monte Carlo in the garage with 1,025 miles. No leaks no seals cracked in either the Vette or the Monte.
Maybe you should start a thread trying to identify the age which a car really starts to need things. The other aspect is mileage.

When I bought a 10-yr-old 89 (with 14k miles) in 1999, I deluded myself into thinking I could always keep it looking factory new -- for years. I'm also mechanically inclined.

Ultimately, I couldn't foresee a malfunctioning sprinker at work, the cost/detioration of weatherstrips, what happends to injectors, and the whole aging thing. It was my first car where age was a much a challenge as maintenance.

The fact is, nothing lasts forever and you have to pay -- just to keep things in factory condition.

That said, if you're only gonna drive it a couple thousand miles in 10 years, I'd probably be more inclinded to leave it as-is. There would be a significant difference in depreciation. If anywhere near [questionably] modified, the value would drop to less than half. If left as-is, it might actually go up a few percent.

I think the price of gasoline -- and the price of tea in China -- could have a direct effect. That's the unknown.

For me, I wanted to take the basic platform and build something really enjoyable. So, I modded mine to develop modern HP levels -- for a sportscar. For me, that's worth it because it got me into something I couldnt' otherwise afford/own.

And, I don't regret it a bit.

Given the choice of getting my original investment back or keeping the 383 "beast", I'd make the same decision all over again. Because I'll have more "fun" than the NCRS guy.

What me controversial? That's right....better and more fun than NCRS!




So....to quote another famous CF member......"Go BIG or go Prius!"
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 04:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by 87C4_4spd
I am going to do some mods. I just put some Flomaster mufflers on with the stainless tips. A little better sound and the tips look nicer that stock.

The next big one is an updated stereo with Bluetooth and USB. Other than that not going to do too much more.
Coming from someone that use to have an '86 vette with flowmaster 40's I would really think hard about those mufflers, they made that car almost undrivable with bad drone. If I were to do it again I would look at (cheap) muffler elims. as long as the rest of the exhaust is stock it will still be fairly quiet and will not resonate
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 05:32 PM
  #35  
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I have put 3000 miles on my 86 this summer. all stock. 15K when I bought it. I intend to keep it all stock and put lots of miles on it.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 07:38 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by eatmydst1234
Coming from someone that use to have an '86 vette with flowmaster 40's I would really think hard about those mufflers, they made that car almost undrivable with bad drone. If I were to do it again I would look at (cheap) muffler elims. as long as the rest of the exhaust is stock it will still be fairly quiet and will not resonate
My Flomaster's are the 50 series. They are not much louder than stock. I don't get any drone at all inside. I would acutually like them to be a little louder but without a drone inside.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by eatmydst1234
Coming from someone that use to have an '86 vette with flowmaster 40's I would really think hard about those mufflers, they made that car almost undrivable with bad drone. If I were to do it again I would look at (cheap) muffler elims. as long as the rest of the exhaust is stock it will still be fairly quiet and will not resonate
The discrepancy may be the presence/absence of cats. With a factory-correct from Y-pipe, I think you could run any muffler and be happy. Without cats, you'd want a much smoother muffler.
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 08:18 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by GREGGPENN
The discrepancy may be the presence/absence of cats. With a factory-correct from Y-pipe, I think you could run any muffler and be happy. Without cats, you'd want a much smoother muffler.
Thinking about it that car had tue duals, no cats and a crossover pipe to the flowmaster 40's
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Old Nov 3, 2012 | 10:25 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by eatmydst1234
Thinking about it that car had tue duals, no cats and a crossover pipe to the flowmaster 40's
Yeah...the cats are the deciding factor -- for sound quality. And no one should run w/o ANY cats unless it's a dedicated race car.

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Old Nov 4, 2012 | 02:29 AM
  #40  
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Will the C4 ever be a collector grade vehicle? Set aside the few that already are, Grand Sport being the one that really comes to mind. The answer is yes, at some point. But that point is years beyond our reasonable life expectancy.

So the question then is what do I prefer? What can I afford?

It has been said here many times;

1, fast
2, reliable
3, cheap

pick two

As far as resale, in the collector NCRS world, stock editions will retain a certain resale which will decline with every mile driven. However, as Gregg pointed out that will come with it's own cost. My research at times has been that it is even more expensive to retain factory specs than to modify. For example, when a lifter failure damaged my stock LT4 camshaft, the direct GM replacement was around $400. However, the GMPP Hotcam was $240. But, that Hotcam caused my cats to burn up, some of that my fault. If I had that to do over, I would have gone with the stock cam.

Gregg is right that the resale value declines rapidly when modified...if the potential buyer is looking for a stock C4. But, if the buyer is a mod and drive minded individual, you are more likely to get a better price, because you've done all the lifting for them. While you will not get your investment in full return, you could still get about the same return as you might in the stock form. It's all about what the buyer is willing to pay really. So actually resale, is moot point when it comes to modification.

But, a stock vehicle is going to be easier, overall, to maintain. Yes, parts will need to be replaced. But, the factory specs are right there. Just maintain those and all is well. A modified car, involves more research, more guess work, and always the chance that you will not get what you hoped for. Just read exhaust threads, and you'll see what I mean.

So the real answer is...what ever you want. Ask yourself, how am I going to use this car? Do I want to Auto X, Track days, drag race? If so, than modified is what you want. Do you want to show and shine, cruise around town, and maybe a spirited jaunt on some twisties? Well, then you may prefer stock. It's your car, your money.

As for mine, I'm really looking toward taking back to stock. Which isn't a long road at this point.
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