Well Fellas I finally got to take it to the dyno. Many of you are trying to help me with getting this critter to run where it should be and some of the answers may be here now.

I should first set the stage. The guys running the Dyno were very new to the system. They told me ahead of time and said to not be in a hurry. They were very friendly and helpful and know alot about engines, but nothing about the dyno.

We got there at 5:00pm and they began hooking the car up. It took a bit of time and then we were ready. I couldn't wait. I guessed it would be about 305HP with 350 ft/lbs

They did a test run and got the data. They ran the car again and the data repeated fairly close. The first two runs were to see where the car wouldn't downshift from D (3rd). Once this was established they set up the WB02.

From here on out we had an unbelievable amount of trouble. The damn computer wouldn't log the power and torque curves. Everything else was there. Finally I asked if I could just play around with the system and find out what the heck was going on. These guys knew nothing about computers at all. I finally was able to retrieve the runs I have listed below, but still some of the data was lost. We ran the car a total of 9 times throughout the night. I only left at about 10pm. The guys were totally embarrassed, and were very apologetic. I told them it seemed as though they lost communication with the accelerometer or something. All the other data was being logged, except that.

Getting back to the numbers. They were less than expected, but I was prepared for worse. They thought it ran pretty good.

I did discover a few things by looking at the curves. My power kind of flattens off above 4800 RPM. Before that spot the curve climbs continually. I think if I get my max timing set to come in right at 3600 I can raise the 3600-4800 part of the curve quite a bit.

Fuel was rich like I suspected. I did burn a chip to lean it out, but never got the data from that run. The reason the AFR was high on the one run that contains the AFR at the bottom of the graph was the tube came off with the exhaust blast.

I really felt bad for the guys. They had to have felt like idiots. I really did not mind. It was cool to play with it and get the data I did.

I accomplished a few things by going. It gave me a good idea of how the cars running. And verified my Wbo2's readings with that of theirs. Mine followed theirs to a T. And I think I can get some more usable HP by bringing my timing in quicker around 3600RPM.

Give me your thoughts on the curves. You guys obviously have much more experience and maybe can direct my attention to some items that stick out. Hopefully I can get some worthwhile information out of them.

At the end of the night the guy asked me what I thought was a fair price. I told him I would pay the full amount regardless. They put a whole lot of time in and they were upfront and tried everything they could. In the end he only accepted $50 bucks. He even called me this morning to see if I got home OK (2 hr drive). And said he would ship my Columbia coat I left there for free. We spoke for ~1 hr and he said as soon as they get it fixed he would open it up on a Saturday for me and I could run my car as many times as I want for the $75 charge to get it tuned.

In my opinion, these guys are TOP notch. Maybe not the most computer literate fellas, but very nice to work with.

Give me your thoughts on the numbers from the graphs! I can't wait.

 

Nice, congrats. I think your superram motor pulled longer than my 406 S/R did. Mine put 300 corrected HP at the rearwheels and 520 ft lbs.

IMO your torque is on the low side for a S/R motor, but mine was a 400small block.

I had a mean set of heads on my superram motor, Brodix T1 alum heads with 2.08 in., I think your low power is because of your intake choice.

I removed my S/R and slapped on a victor. jr bowtie single plane intake and 830 holley and the car went from a 11.90-12.0 car to super low 11.s

No top end in those S/Rs. It could be the small MAF but I never tried a bigger one.




[Modified by Red94Vette, 11:10 AM 6/7/2002]

 

nice numbers. my brother and I are trying to put together a similar setup on his 86. he just got the SR and in the process of ordering the AFR 190's aslo. on your AFR heads, what combustion chamber size did you go with ?(we' re still deciding whether to go w/ 64cc or 58; extra $250 charge)

as far as the cam, we were leaning towards an isky cam 221/232 .496/.517 w/ 1.6rr. what do you think this cam will do ?

thanks and congrats on the nice numbers.

joel

 

I still don't know what to make of your numbers. They are mind boggling to say the least. My 383 put down 300 rwhp and 380 tq with a smaller cam, and unported base, at a 4600-4800 hp peak. With the 219 cam, ported AFR's, ported superram the car was a beast. Too bad I didn't get to dyno it before I blew it up from running too lean. It was way more than the 300 from the previous combo though. I ran 110 mph in the 1/4 spinning nitto drag radials thru 1st gear, so I know it had at least 113-115 mph in it. You are way low.

Were you getting any spark retard? What is your timing curve in your chip like? Are you hitting the 255 on the MAF? What were the O2's?

 

My WBO2 said I was running at 11.9-12.2 at WOT. This was also confirmed with other runs watching the screen shots.

I thought I would be a tad higher. About 330-340 hp. Maybe its still the tune?

I'm getting mixed signals here. Some are saying good numbers, other not so good. I too thought the torque numbers were light. Perhaps with that stall speed I am driving through some of the higher torque numbers. All the SR engines I looked at so far the torque drops off quite quick. I too thought it would put out more torque than it did.

What things would cause this? Valves being not adjusted right? Too much fuel? Not enough spark? My max timing is at 36.2 that is at 4800+. I plan on doing a chip with that at 3600 that might help a bit.

No knock retard. Its not connected. There was no way I could get that much timing with the knock sensor hooked up. Its kept giving me false knock counts. There are no signs of detonation on the plugs. They are a bit on the black side, but beyond that everything is OK.

I have checked the compression a while back. All cylinders are at 150PSI +- 2 psi. They were checked on several occasions. My FP is set at 43 PSI. Timing map is the same as Ralphs.

Gove me your ideas guys. I need to find the missing power!

Thanks all.

Jesse

 

OK, I've been following your saga and am convinced its several things, not just one or two. What those are is anyones guess. Did you port the base any at all? How about gasket matching. Whats the static cr or cylinder pressure when warm. Even with 280 rwhp you should trap higher than 105 I would think. When you dropped the lower intake on, did you ensure that it's ports lined up correctly with the intake ports on the heads? I've heard of people having some issues with the afr heads but that was usually with the miniram ports/runners. Only reason I say this is because your low end torque seems a bit low. Maybe this is an indication of not enough velocity at low speeds in the cylinder head intake runners. BTW, what do those numbers correct to? I thought you were at several thousand feet elevation?


[Modified by red90sixspeed, 12:43 PM 6/7/2002]

 

Red90..

I think you might be making a good point about lack of airflow. I can't answer your question about the manifold to heads, but can say I tried my best to make sure everything was matched etc. I cut the gaskets to make sure there was no obstructions, etc. Now if something moved when assembly took place, your guess is as good as mine.

The SR and base were ordered from Lingenfelter and did have the casting surface in the runners, but were tapered to match the mating surfaces of the other piece. They did not have any overlaps or obstructions I could see. How could I tell if this is the problem?

The elevation was straightened out by Beach. Its not that significant of a problem. The document I got the information from, was wrong. Another official goverment document.

Thanks.


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 2:21 PM 6/7/2002]

 

What's your compression ratio?

Are you positive the cam is installed on a 108 lobe centerline? Your cranking compression seems low unless the cam is retarded or you have a very low compression ratio. With a 9.5:1 compression ratio and the LPE 219 cam on a 108 LCA your cranking compression should be closer to 170-185 psi. Of course it could be your gauge.


[Modified by torquejunky, 2:07 PM 6/7/2002]

 

My compression ratio should be ~10.5. I had the AFRs milled to 58cc the stock cc. The pistons are stock (not sure what the relief is. My deck height (I think, I have it written down at home was ~.020 + .039 gasket).

As for the cam. That is what the engine shop had suggested I check last night.

No. I did not degree the cam. The shop last night said that the Lingenfelter cam is most likely correct, but you have to watch out with the sprockets for the crank and cam. Do you really think this is the problem? Is there a way of telling? You very well could be holding the answer. I was going to pull the valve covers to readjust the RR, can I tell from there somehow? How can yu degree it with the non-adjustable camshaft sprocket? I am ignorant to this whole process, I read and read and still foggy. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I am sure I put the sprockets on correctly and they were lined up right. But if the keyways were off. Well I guess the cam is too probably.

Great points! Thanks I look forward to hearing what you have to say!


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 3:34 PM 6/7/2002]

 

Just re-read some of your posts and saw where you got 150 psi. Was that with the engine warm? Mine was 185psi +/- 3 psi. I have had my heads off but did not have them ported, only cleaned up and shaved .010
When I put them back on I used a thinner head gasket than stock. I used a victor reinz .029 compressed thickness. It's impossible to compare your cylinder pressures than mine since we have different cams and valve timing plays a huge part in your cyl press. Find someone with the same top end combo and see what they have for cylinder pressures. This 'MAY' reveal wheather or not your cam is degreed in properly if its a huge difference.
What springs pressures are you running? Alot of people run too much spring and give away hp. As for spark, are you sure you have a hot enough spark with the (theoretical) increased cylinder pressures? Whenever you increase cylinder pressure, many times you have to get a hotter spark to overcome the increase in fuel/air. Top fuel cars have a spark equal to that of an arc welder. Just some more food for thought.

 

I thought the stock compression ratio for an 89 was 9.5:1 so with the .039 gasket (instead of a stock .051) you should be at roughly 9.8:1 with 58 cc heads. This brings up another question - did you cc the combustion chambers and make sure they gave you 58 cc chambers?

Maybe someone else with the LPE219 cam and similar static compression ratio would be nice enough to check their cranking PSI on a few cylinders (SCORP?). I would re-check your's with a different gauge before doing anything else. I think your's (150 psi) is way low and suspect the cam is retarded a lot or AFR forgot to mill your heads and sent 68cc chambers = 8.8:1 compression ratio.

I don't know of a good way to check your cam timing without tearing down the engine. You could cheat a little. You'll need a dial indicator, degree wheel, valve spring compressor for removing springs with heads on, and valve checking spring. Replace a valve spring with a checking valve spring (very light spring that won't collapse the lifter), take off the water pump & front cover ... and install a degree wheel, then check the camshaft LCA with a dial indicator on the valve. At least you wouldn't have to take the Superam off this way. This will be accurate enough to see if the LCA is way off or not. If it is you can drill your cam sprocket pin hole and install an offset bushing to advance the cam. They only cost a few dollars.