Exhaust
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,279
From: Hartford WI
You went thru cutting it out just for a little more noise?
Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 697
Likes: 162
From: Huntington WV
Didn't expect a major increase and you won't see one with just an X- pipe either on a stock car so its a waste. My car is a top down fair weather cruiser. I've had fast obnoxious cars and I'm past that now. Deleting the resonator gives a slightly more muscular sound without being annoying. That's about it. I have only had my car a short time but I've already learned that if you want to go fast cheaply then these cars are not the best choice....:-)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Because it was as much of a power improvement again plus significantly better ability to rev as when I swapped my intake to the Accel base, high flow runners and ported plenum. Of course now with the new engine it's a different story.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
X-Pipe
Didn't expect a major increase and you won't see one with just an X- pipe either on a stock car so its a waste. My car is a top down fair weather cruiser. I've had fast obnoxious cars and I'm past that now. Deleting the resonator gives a slightly more muscular sound without being annoying. That's about it. I have only had my car a short time but I've already learned that if you want to go fast cheaply then these cars are not the best choice....:-)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Does "blatantly obvious" make it more clear? If you're a car guy, you know when your car is running right and when it's not. When you make a change you either feel it or you don't. The exhaust change was an obvious improvement in throttle response, ability to rev and ability to accelerate. Looking at the difference between the horrid stock manifolds and the significantly better LT-1 manifolds what doubt is there?
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Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,094
Likes: 282
From: Phila., PA burbs
Does "blatantly obvious" make it more clear? If you're a car guy, you know when your car is running right and when it's not. When you make a change you either feel it or you don't. The exhaust change was an obvious improvement in throttle response, ability to rev and ability to accelerate. Looking at the difference between the horrid stock manifolds and the significantly better LT-1 manifolds what doubt is there?
Long tubes are probably worth 20 hp or so on average. Shorties I'd guess are half of that, so maybe 10 hp. Using that logic I would say a switch from the crappy L98 exhaust manifolds to the slightly less crappy LT1 manifolds might yield 5 or so HP.
I understand in CA you're limited with what you can do, but I'd still be hard-pressed to call 5 HP a "significant" gain. Just my .02
To the OP, sorry for the hi-jack.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 697
Likes: 162
From: Huntington WV
I just had my local shop cut out the resonator and weld in a pair of straight pipes. Works and sounds fine for what I wanted. Like I said, my car is stock so the x-pipe by itself wasn't really going to help me any. Cost me $50. If you have headers and aftermarket mufflers then the x-pipe is a fine choice to complete the package and maximize flow. For an otherwise stock car like mine, it won't help enough over straight pipe to be noticed. You'll just have a slightly lighter wallet.
Last edited by Polo Vert; Apr 25, 2013 at 04:52 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,279
From: Hartford WI
Does "blatantly obvious" make it more clear?
If you're a car guy, you know when your car is running right and when it's not.
When you make a change you either feel it or you don't.
The exhaust change was an obvious improvement in throttle response, ability to rev and ability to accelerate. Looking at the difference between the horrid stock manifolds and the significantly better LT-1 manifolds what doubt is there?
If you're a car guy, you know when your car is running right and when it's not.
When you make a change you either feel it or you don't.
The exhaust change was an obvious improvement in throttle response, ability to rev and ability to accelerate. Looking at the difference between the horrid stock manifolds and the significantly better LT-1 manifolds what doubt is there?
If those are the only 2 options, sure. You can tell if it is running or not. Whether it is perfectly optimized or leaving 10HP behind, I don't think anyone is that good once we get upwards of a couple hundred HP.
I'm saying there are kids that feel a 20HP gain with a gear change too. Yes, it feels like it but it isn't. Numbers count. The rest is guesswork.
I'd believe it is better and can be seen on the datalogs but whether it can be felt, I don't know.
I have also known a guy that felt the better response and power with a 58mm Throttle Body. Too bad the dyno disagreed with him.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,279
From: Hartford WI
I see.......................the old butt-o-meter.
Long tubes are probably worth 20 hp or so on average. Shorties I'd guess are half of that, so maybe 10 hp. Using that logic I would say a switch from the crappy L98 exhaust manifolds to the slightly less crappy LT1 manifolds might yield 5 or so HP.
I understand in CA you're limited with what you can do, but I'd still be hard-pressed to call 5 HP a "significant" gain. Just my .02
Long tubes are probably worth 20 hp or so on average. Shorties I'd guess are half of that, so maybe 10 hp. Using that logic I would say a switch from the crappy L98 exhaust manifolds to the slightly less crappy LT1 manifolds might yield 5 or so HP.
I understand in CA you're limited with what you can do, but I'd still be hard-pressed to call 5 HP a "significant" gain. Just my .02
20HP seems a little high unless the motor is tuned for it. I don't think you will see 20HP between a stock motor with LT headers and when you remove them.
On a 10HP motor, sure.
250HP motor? Not so much.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Not really. I don't use the butt dyno which is why they made dynos in the first place.
If those are the only 2 options, sure. You can tell if it is running or not. Whether it is perfectly optimized or leaving 10HP behind, I don't think anyone is that good once we get upwards of a couple hundred HP.
I'm saying there are kids that feel a 20HP gain with a gear change too. Yes, it feels like it but it isn't. Numbers count. The rest is guesswork.
I'd believe it is better and can be seen on the datalogs but whether it can be felt, I don't know.
I have also known a guy that felt the better response and power with a 58mm Throttle Body. Too bad the dyno disagreed with him.
If those are the only 2 options, sure. You can tell if it is running or not. Whether it is perfectly optimized or leaving 10HP behind, I don't think anyone is that good once we get upwards of a couple hundred HP.
I'm saying there are kids that feel a 20HP gain with a gear change too. Yes, it feels like it but it isn't. Numbers count. The rest is guesswork.
I'd believe it is better and can be seen on the datalogs but whether it can be felt, I don't know.
I have also known a guy that felt the better response and power with a 58mm Throttle Body. Too bad the dyno disagreed with him.
When you replace this:
With this:
It's gonna flow better.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,279
From: Hartford WI
You know that but did you tell the ECM that? I put Accel Tri-Y headers from LPE on my 91 Firebird. No real noticable difference until Lingenfelter retuned the ECM. At that point, DIACOM picked up some difference. As I said, butt dyno is good for large increases. Smaller increases, hardly. So, do you think the car picked up 50HP or even close to that with just the manifolds? I think no.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,882
Likes: 234
From: Bangkok, Thailand
Well, if I put a 50 cal slug thru the engine, I can tell that it has lost power too. I am NOT talking of some extreme case like that any more than the plug wires. As I said, if it is not working, butt dyno can tell. When it is not operating at peak efficiency and you lose a few HP, it becomes much harder. When I had dirty injectors and one of them had a collapsed filter that restricted SOME, NOT ALL the flow, it was hard to tell. So, unless you gain 50HP on a 250HP motor, it is going to be very difficult to tell.
You know that but did you tell the ECM that? I put Accel Tri-Y headers from LPE on my 91 Firebird. No real noticable difference until Lingenfelter retuned the ECM. At that point, DIACOM picked up some difference. As I said, butt dyno is good for large increases. Smaller increases, hardly. So, do you think the car picked up 50HP or even close to that with just the manifolds? I think no.
You know that but did you tell the ECM that? I put Accel Tri-Y headers from LPE on my 91 Firebird. No real noticable difference until Lingenfelter retuned the ECM. At that point, DIACOM picked up some difference. As I said, butt dyno is good for large increases. Smaller increases, hardly. So, do you think the car picked up 50HP or even close to that with just the manifolds? I think no.
Nope, I never said 50hp. Please note my previous post. Aside from that, maybe my butt is just better calibrated than yours.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,430
Likes: 3,279
From: Hartford WI
Fine. Tell us how much of a difference your butt can sense. I will admit that my butt is not as calibrated as yours and I can't sense little differences. That is why I pay someone to strap my car to a dyno to tell me power levels and I use datalogging software to find what the ECM is seeing and what is going on. So, tell us, on a 250HP car, how much difference can you sense? Or another way is how much power do you think your manifolds alone gave you? Again, I admit that I cannot consistently tell between a 250 and a 255HP car. Can you?
Last edited by aklim; Apr 27, 2013 at 03:20 AM.
