L98 Finally bites bullet/upgrade opinions
05-24-2013, 11:24 AM
#21
There's definitely nothing simpler to install than a MR. And, on an automatic car -- headed down a straight-line track -- it's the "bees/knees". Problem is there are other types of races, rpms where power is best suited, classes by HP (that mean more torque wins), and stick cars where gear selection might not be as straightforward as you think.
For ANY automatic car, I will always agree that an intake peaking just before your shift point(s) is the way to go. For a stick on the autocross track, it's gets more complicated. That where -- if you've followed l98TPIs posts, you'd understand.
Also, that FIRST isn't a "whole new beast". It's been around for years -- though just recently modified to fit LT cars too.
A link to the comparison would be interesting to see. If you're talking about dyno'd HP number in the TPI Shootout, most of us already know what you mean. In many of those TGO threads, the HSR is consider "the winner". Nothing is black and white.
For ANY automatic car, I will always agree that an intake peaking just before your shift point(s) is the way to go. For a stick on the autocross track, it's gets more complicated. That where -- if you've followed l98TPIs posts, you'd understand.
Also, that FIRST isn't a "whole new beast". It's been around for years -- though just recently modified to fit LT cars too.
A link to the comparison would be interesting to see. If you're talking about dyno'd HP number in the TPI Shootout, most of us already know what you mean. In many of those TGO threads, the HSR is consider "the winner". Nothing is black and white.
05-24-2013, 12:39 PM
#22
Race Director
YEP. I have an auto. Strictly street so the mini ram would be the right set up for me. However it aint in the budget so for now it's gonna be my L98 with headers,dump the air pump and egr, new injectors and maybe some 1.6 rockers, and a tune. Don't know if the 1.6 rockers are worth doing on my stock engine.
1.6 rockers are "worth it"...considering the age of your car warrants new springs anyway. Install both at the same time.
05-24-2013, 10:15 PM
#23
Max G’s
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=GREGGPENN;1583980538]You OUGHT to be able to sell/buy/swap for a FIRST intake without losing any money. You'd gain at least 500 rpms and probably a bit more. For someone running a motor above 6k rpms, it's really the only longtube choice. That precludes the SR...and MR.
Hopefully, you know about "negative" pressure on the rods when you run a TPI beyond it's peak?
Obviously, there are other [HP] considerations for your auto-x class -- that I've no clue about -- but the FIRST is definitely the test longtube TPI for a 383 (or higher). Maybe it wouldn't "hold down" your horsepower enough? Is that a consideration for the 383 too?
I am sticking with the High Flow TPI I currently have. But in bainstorming the cubes, one felt that larger than 383 may decrease actual torque production in the 3K to 4.5K and not be worth the additional weight and cost. And the negative pressure above peak, I have not heard that before, although there was one time on track when coming down straight and in a pass and come up on corner I slightly lifted on the throttle and felt like I got a push in the ***!! And no my rear didn't lighten up and get squirrely, it just felt like I was laying into the throttle. Never felt that since.
Hopefully, you know about "negative" pressure on the rods when you run a TPI beyond it's peak?
Obviously, there are other [HP] considerations for your auto-x class -- that I've no clue about -- but the FIRST is definitely the test longtube TPI for a 383 (or higher). Maybe it wouldn't "hold down" your horsepower enough? Is that a consideration for the 383 too?
I am sticking with the High Flow TPI I currently have. But in bainstorming the cubes, one felt that larger than 383 may decrease actual torque production in the 3K to 4.5K and not be worth the additional weight and cost. And the negative pressure above peak, I have not heard that before, although there was one time on track when coming down straight and in a pass and come up on corner I slightly lifted on the throttle and felt like I got a push in the ***!! And no my rear didn't lighten up and get squirrely, it just felt like I was laying into the throttle. Never felt that since.
05-24-2013, 10:22 PM
#25
Max G’s
Thread Starter
YEP. I have an auto. Strictly street so the mini ram would be the right set up for me. However it aint in the budget so for now it's gonna be my L98 with headers,dump the air pump and egr, new injectors and maybe some 1.6 rockers, and a tune. Don't know if the 1.6 rockers are worth doing on my stock engine.
your motor makes great power.
05-25-2013, 12:32 AM
#27
Race Director
05-25-2013, 03:52 AM
#28
Blah. EGR went out when cams with overlap went in. All that junk can go out the door and one less headache to troubleshoot.
05-25-2013, 10:40 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
05-25-2013, 12:26 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
cheapest may well be a 383 with keeping your top end. lots of tourque. Don't know how well does @6500 tho. Lots of talk about beehive springs with the 1.6 rockers.. Single wound ,lighter, as much or more pounds in the upper reaches of rocker travel. haven't tried them yet tho.
05-25-2013, 02:18 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
If you've already decided on a forged bottom end, then a 396 won't cost any more.
As far as RPMs go, my 396 Super Ram with a 221/230 cam and AFR 195s will pull 6,000. It peaks around 5,500.
As far as RPMs go, my 396 Super Ram with a 221/230 cam and AFR 195s will pull 6,000. It peaks around 5,500.
05-25-2013, 02:20 PM
#32
Race Director
The stock cam(s) don't have any overlap to speak about. The stock 89 for example, has a 117 LSA.
05-25-2013, 02:26 PM
#33
Shucks Greg right now i have nothing. Dead stock. I'm researching,learning,collecting info and opinions. One thing is for sure. I either slap a better exhaust on mine with a cam like that LPE 211/219 and a tune and let it go at that. Or go deep in the wallet with a whole new engine. From what Jim is telling me i might as well go to a 383 instead of a 350 but my TPI isn't gonna cut the mustard feeding that engine. Frustrating dilemma to say the least.
05-25-2013, 02:27 PM
#34
Race Director
I am sticking with the High Flow TPI I currently have. But in bainstorming the cubes, one felt that larger than 383 may decrease actual torque production in the 3K to 4.5K and not be worth the additional weight and cost. And the negative pressure above peak, I have not heard that before, although there was one time on track when coming down straight and in a pass and come up on corner I slightly lifted on the throttle and felt like I got a push in the ***!! And no my rear didn't lighten up and get squirrely, it just felt like I was laying into the throttle. Never felt that since.
That same air restriction that doesn't "allow" more air to pass beyond peak intake flow also starts "holding back the RA from turning. When they're trying to pull air in -- and can't -- pressure on the pins/rods reverses. If run significantly beyond peak, it's hard on the motor. Don't remember where I saw this ... or I'd provide a link. It was an external source like HotRod Magazine or something.
Maybe someone else saw it?
Even without that, people who "do the math" on the correct shift point usually recommend 3-400 rpms above HP peak. If you wait until 6500, aren't you about 1k rpms above peak?
05-25-2013, 02:47 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
At the very least, look into a modified LT-1 intake. I see them as low as $300 and $400 for ones with attention to detail in the finished piece. Not a big fan of spending a grand on big mouth base, runners, plenum and throttle body while still leaving rpm on the table, either. I love the stock L98 intake but would not plunk it on anything other than the original 350 it rolled off the line on.
05-25-2013, 02:48 PM
#36
I get the impression you're sticking with your current intake. Not sure why. Just a hunch...
That same air restriction that doesn't "allow" more air to pass beyond peak intake flow also starts "holding back the RA from turning. When they're trying to pull air in -- and can't -- pressure on the pins/rods reverses. If run significantly beyond peak, it's hard on the motor. Don't remember where I saw this ... or I'd provide a link. It was an external source like HotRod Magazine or something.
Maybe someone else saw it?
Even without that, people who "do the math" on the correct shift point usually recommend 3-400 rpms above HP peak. If you wait until 6500, aren't you about 1k rpms above peak?
That same air restriction that doesn't "allow" more air to pass beyond peak intake flow also starts "holding back the RA from turning. When they're trying to pull air in -- and can't -- pressure on the pins/rods reverses. If run significantly beyond peak, it's hard on the motor. Don't remember where I saw this ... or I'd provide a link. It was an external source like HotRod Magazine or something.
Maybe someone else saw it?
Even without that, people who "do the math" on the correct shift point usually recommend 3-400 rpms above HP peak. If you wait until 6500, aren't you about 1k rpms above peak?
05-25-2013, 05:16 PM
#37
Race Director
It boils down to living with what the car came with and a few ponies added with a cam and exhaust. Beyond that L98 is done right there. Super Rams are rare as hens teeth now so it comes down to a mini ram or that First Fuel Injection oversized TPI set up. The mini ram is for high rpm applications and the First is mid range. The First is also cheaper than the mini ram. I called TPIS and talked to them. They were telling me cam heads rockers push rods valve springs on and on. Heck it would be cheaper to buy a ZZ383 and slap that First on it in the end. Maybe i'll just dive off my balcony.
05-25-2013, 05:18 PM
#38
Race Director
At the very least, look into a modified LT-1 intake. I see them as low as $300 and $400 for ones with attention to detail in the finished piece. Not a big fan of spending a grand on big mouth base, runners, plenum and throttle body while still leaving rpm on the table, either. I love the stock L98 intake but would not plunk it on anything other than the original 350 it rolled off the line on.
05-25-2013, 06:10 PM
#39
Max G’s
Thread Starter
I get the impression you're sticking with your current intake. Not sure why. Just a hunch...
That same air restriction that doesn't "allow" more air to pass beyond peak intake flow also starts "holding back the RA from turning. When they're trying to pull air in -- and can't -- pressure on the pins/rods reverses. If run significantly beyond peak, it's hard on the motor. Don't remember where I saw this ... or I'd provide a link. It was an external source like HotRod Magazine or something.
Maybe someone else saw it?
Even without that, people who "do the math" on the correct shift point usually recommend 3-400 rpms above HP peak. If you wait until 6500, aren't you about 1k rpms above peak?
That same air restriction that doesn't "allow" more air to pass beyond peak intake flow also starts "holding back the RA from turning. When they're trying to pull air in -- and can't -- pressure on the pins/rods reverses. If run significantly beyond peak, it's hard on the motor. Don't remember where I saw this ... or I'd provide a link. It was an external source like HotRod Magazine or something.
Maybe someone else saw it?
Even without that, people who "do the math" on the correct shift point usually recommend 3-400 rpms above HP peak. If you wait until 6500, aren't you about 1k rpms above peak?
05-25-2013, 08:48 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
By the way, the 195s are a good match for a 396. You just need more air flow to the heads. For what you say you are looking for, the Mini Ram seems like the ticket. You could sell the TPiS manifold to help pay for it. Any loss of low end torque from the Mini would be more than made up for with the longer stroke. And you would still have power at higher RPMs. I'm just sayin.