I just did a bunch of mods and now my car seems slower than stock. What the heck is going on?

My mods are:

Mini Ram
Hedman Long Tube Headers
Flat tappet ZZ409 Cam
12 degrees BTDC
8.5mm MSD low resistance ignition wires
cat delete
AIR delete
EGR delete
3:75:1 Rear ratio
K&N Air filter
Cut air filter lid
Descreened MAF Sensor
Dynomax Ultra Flo mufflers
Heated O2 Sensor Conversion
Speedometer Calibrator
AFR Gauge w/ Wideband O2 Sensor


And my tuner told me that he was targeting 13:1 AFR at WOT, which is what it was, it's about 13:1-16:1 at idle, with a little idle surge and 14:1-15:1 during acceleration.

My Auto Tech instructor told me it should be 14.7 at idle, around 14.7 during acceleration, and 11:1 at WOT.

I'm at a loss here, all and all it cost me around $5,000.

Not really sure what to do, because I should be seeing a noticeable gain from this. I mean, my father's F150 could probably beat the damn thing in a race.

Any ideas?

Other than get rid of the iron heads, because someone on third gen forums with a iron headed L98, similar mods to mine makes like 260 rwhp, which equates to I believe ~330 horsepower at the crank.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/al...ers-stock.html

It sure as hell doesn't feel like 330 horsepower.

Thanks for any help.

 

You can put anything in, or on, the motor you want, but as long as you have those heads your not going to see much improvement. That's what's called " The Weak Link" .. The heads should have been replaced at the same time you did everything else, everything has to work together in a motor for it to put out maximum power...And as you are seeing first hand if the components don't compliment each other you can actually lose power... Get a decent set of heads that are matched up with the rest of the motor and you will see a power increase...Let me just add that I had a 383 long block built by a engine builder on this forum and it didn't cost me $5,000........WW

 

Well then how the hell is the other guy seeing an improvement with a very similar set up and I'm not?

 

I also rebuilt the whole topend, had the rear installed by someone else, speedometer calibrator, afr gauge, lots of broken sensors, and a bunch of other things, my bank statements come out to around 5k so...

 

Year of car?
Auto? Does it have a Stall converter?
Stick? Hows the clutch?
Stock single tube exhaust?
Injector?
Valve spring?
Engine mileage, did you do a compression check?
Tuner experience?

Yup, steel heads are part of the problem.

 

Im not trying to be a smart azz, but do you believe everything you read.. The only people I believe about HP claims are people I trust to tell me the truth... The one thing I do know is, "no one that wants to make good power uses the stock iron heads"...Period...You have the intake , the cam, the headers, but not the heads.....WW

 

1985
4+3 Clutch is great
Stock exhaust, had true duals before but it lost throttle response
All brand new Bosch III 24 lb. injectors
105k Miles 165 PSI compression test
and I don't really have any experience tuning other than data logging and burning chips, I have a guy in Ohio email me new tunes.

 

I by no means am a tuner, but the target AFR is not the only thing in tuning. The timing tables need adjusted. I "think" you need to add timing in the lower rpms with a bigger cam, but again, there are several others who know much more.
But, are you sure the top end is done right? IE. was the valves adjusted properly? It set too tight, it will loose power. Also was the cam installed correctly? It will run 1 tooth off but poorly. Just a few thoughts.
Oh and one more, I have had excellent results with PCMFORLESS in NC on mail order tunes. They are a supporting vender too. Assuming the mechanical part is correct, it could just be a poor tune.

 

I can't view spark counts because I have an 870 ECM. And yes the top end was done properly, we just installed new valve springs today because the stock ones broke because of the new lift, so they were adjusted.

And the cam was installed dot to dot.

I'm using a guy from lt1pcmtuning.com.

 

Mis-matched mods. you have the wrong cam or the wrong heads. Your cam requires more than 9.0-1. If you get better heads it will fix part of your problem. It would be more cost effective to call a cam company (Crane, Comp Cams....etc) and have them recommend a cam that works with what you have now. what is 12 BTDC?

 

I should also mention that the engine runs strong. It just doesn't perform that way

 

This is the cam that TPIS recommended for my set up.

And also I have 3.75s

 

This means his timing is set to "12 degrees before top dead center", stock is 6 degrees BTDC..... I don't know how he came to this timing setting but this is way way advanced.....WW

 

My 85 had cast iron heads and a mild cam when I bought it. I added a Super Ram and headers. The change was not what I had hoped for. It took a set of AFR heads to wake the motor up. 85 cast iron heads suck!

You have a nice intake, cam and exhaust. You haven't wasted any money so far. Real power isn't cheap. You're almost there.

 

I was planning on getting the AFR 195 heads, but, I see there are a few options. Which ones will fit on my car? And what else will I need to go with them? Do they come with head gaskets? And what's up with me needing different sizes for compression ratios? Which one do I need? Essentially, following your set up.

Also, how much power are you making and what are your track times? Thanks!

 

Question of 12 BTDC was more why ...what is total advance at 3800-4000. On TPIS site cam listed for LT1/sbc seems a little much for 9.0-1. Being stall converter recommended for auto seems like a cam with higher powerband. Suggest heads to get 10-10.5-1 compression.

 

Also, I have a mini ram 2, is that the proper fitment for those heads?

 

So.. stock heads and exhaust? this is your problem. Like WW said you didn't waste your money but it all works together.

 

I would go with angle plugs and 65cc chambers. The angle plugs give better clearance for plugs and wires. The 65cc chambers will give you a bump in compression. You'll need Felpro 1003 head gaskets. The gasket information is on the AFR website. If you contact TPI421Vette he can get you a better price on the heads.

My current combination is a 396 Super Ram with AFR 195s, Crower 221/230 cam and a roller block. So the power numbers are not a good comparison. I have not been to the dyno but on paper 425 RWHP is a conservative estimate. It's fast enough for now.

 

And my tuner told me that he was targeting 13:1 AFR at WOT, which is what it was, it's about 13:1-16:1 at idle, with a little idle surge and 14:1-15:1 during acceleration.

My Auto Tech instructor told me it should be 14.7 at idle, around 14.7 during acceleration, and 11:1 at WOT.


Any ideas?

Yes some afr heads would add a lot however........

You answered yourself above-major tuning problems..............