aklim

Have you checked if there are air leaks? How old are the injectors including the cold start one?

skoto1

no haven't checked for air leaks and injectors are probably original. thinking of pulling all the electronics of this piece of crap and going with an aluminum intake and holley. Or dropping my 454 in it and be done with it.Make it simple.

aklim

That is an option. As is driving the car off the cliff. If I had to go back to the first option, I'd exercise the 2nd ASAP.

Just check what we told you so far. If it is wrong, you still have time to butcher it to a carb setup

skoto1

I like the driving it off the cliff idea. but maybe i'll just push it off. Car has been sitting for a few years unattended. I'm sure i have just scratched the surface of this. I'll try a few more things before i give up. But 454 swap I think is my last resort. Tomorrow is another day. And as far as butchering it I think chevy engineers did a pretty good job of that.

Silver85

Just because your can't fix it doesn't mean an engineer butchered it.

aklim

Consider this. Your company is so FUBARed that you have to beg for govt assistance since nobody else is willing to take a risk on you. It came to the point that you had to fire your CEO and accept an Obama apointee. All of this is in spite of the fact that you SQUANDERED your HUGE lead and home field advantage. Now lets talk of butchering a car.

Silver85

I can promise that the engineering team that developed the c4 had little to nothing to do with the issues GM faces.

aklim

Doesn't engineering work within the parameters of management?

Silver85

So the 32 year old car sits for a couple years and now has a tough time starting and you want to blame the engineer that designed it? Yes, that makes sense.

aklim

I think you know what I mean. But for clarity, it wasn't engineered that good to begin with as evidenced by the flocking to the "Japanese Junk". Or do you think that Toyota by accident became so well respected from the crap it was way back when? Not to mention many WW2 Vets who might have harsh feelings for things Japanese? I know my grandfather's generation that lived through the Japanese occupation didn't exactly feel warm and fuzzy towards them so I have to assume the US vets weren't exactly thrilled with them either.

By all means, if you have a dispute to anything I said about GM screwing itself over, I'm all ears. That said, yes, the car being left to sit has a different story but I think you DO understand that I am saying that IN GENERAL, General Motors and later Government Motors wasn't producing good stuff for the longest time.

Silver85

I get what you are saying and you are right about GM being it's own worst enemy but I don't agree that the c4 suffers from poor engineering. OP wants to throw out TPI and go back to a carb and considers that an improvement and wants to blame poor engineering?

aklim

Carb is definitely an improvement if you cannot and/or will not understand EFI. It has a lot of sloppy fudging allowed so it would be an improvement.

skoto1

Didn't say I can't fix it. Just saying It's like chasing a rabbit. Takes too many things to make it work right, There is a simpler way. Just a way for GM to make tons on parts and diagnostics when you have to take it in if you can't do it and most people can't. Thank the lord I can and will.

skoto1

Too many things to make it run right. Yes i blame the engineers for that fiasco. Setting for a couple years I don't think has much to do with the bad engineering. It was designed to make GM money on parts and diagnostics. There is a simpler way. But i will sort it out. Didn't want to start a pissing match. Just needed some info. But i'll figure it out .

aklim

Like what are you thinking it will take? Injectors are 30 years old. Mine don't owe me money anymore if I had them.

Sorry but with EPA and the foreign equivalents, EFI is defacto mandatory. Carb is "simpler" because the person is too lazy and or stupid to demand more precision and willing to accept slop.

aklim

Such as what? IF you are willing to accept the slop that a carb is, EFI is quite livable under those terms. You also have to rebuild your carb once in a while. You have to probably choke it unless it has an electric choke. Maybe sit and warm it up when it is freezing cold. You;d have to be willing to put up with some issues when you go higher or lower. My wife's sea level ATV didn't run right at 10000 feet. Someone else in the group had the same issue. My EFI ATV didn't have those issues. Start and ride.

GM isn't the only one with EFI.

skoto1

Thanks your reassuring comment. Been working on cars probably longer than you've been alive. And if your calling me stupid you can look me up and we'll discuss this in person. All I wanted from this post is info but I see this site doesn't have anything good to say, so I'll take my questions elsewhere. bye.

aklim

And? I have a 20 year man at the local Ford dealership that didn't know how to do more than replace parts that were out of spec. I had to get another one to diagnose it with his scanner and get it right because he couldn't seem to understand the FSM. We had someone hanging cabinets for more than 10 years and he didn't understand the objection about the grain running the wrong way. Length of time doesn't cut any ice in my book. How is that "experience" working out for you for diagnostics?

That was the impression I got from talking to people longing for the good old days of the carb. Just couldn't and/or wouldn't adjust to the paradigm that was no longer an option. All they could say is "It was simpler". I suppose I could have said "simpler stuff for simpler minds"? Would that be less offensive?

No, all you wanted to do was spread conspiracy theories. You didn't ask any questions and you didn't do any tests. You just wanted a "remove this sensor and put a new one" answer. You change stuff without testing and it becomes a black hole for money. So if you want an good answer, here it is. Change everything including the car. Get a new one and life is good. For a while, that is.