383 Stroker - On a Budget?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Well, yeah. I knew it was the cam that made the difference. But thanks.
Are the performance benefits from a roller cam enough to warrant me waiting until I can find a good deal on a roller block?
Lastly, is it generally cheaper to buy a short block or all of the individual components and assemble it yourself?
Okay, thanks a ton for keeping up with this thread and giving me so much help! And time zones can be so inconvenient.
Are the performance benefits from a roller cam enough to warrant me waiting until I can find a good deal on a roller block?
Lastly, is it generally cheaper to buy a short block or all of the individual components and assemble it yourself?
Okay, thanks a ton for keeping up with this thread and giving me so much help! And time zones can be so inconvenient.
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; Jul 30, 2014 at 12:47 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Sorry, didn't meant to state the obvious....IDK what you know.
I've never heard of "matching lifters to springs". Obviously, if you use a heavier lifter, you need a stronger spring....I bet most hydraulic roller lifters weigh about the same though. The more important driver of spring selection is really the lobe profile of the cam; the lift, peak operating RPM and how fast the ramp rate is.
It is worth having a roller cam (using a roller block or otherwise). For performance, efficiency, and for longevity.
IMO, it would be cheaper to piece together the parts for a stroker, and assemble it yourself. To ME, the assembled short block is for the person who is unsure of his abilities building, and/or doesn't want to invest the time. Not saying a built short block is a bad way to go, it isn't....like anything, it's a personal decision.
I've never heard of "matching lifters to springs". Obviously, if you use a heavier lifter, you need a stronger spring....I bet most hydraulic roller lifters weigh about the same though. The more important driver of spring selection is really the lobe profile of the cam; the lift, peak operating RPM and how fast the ramp rate is.
It is worth having a roller cam (using a roller block or otherwise). For performance, efficiency, and for longevity.
IMO, it would be cheaper to piece together the parts for a stroker, and assemble it yourself. To ME, the assembled short block is for the person who is unsure of his abilities building, and/or doesn't want to invest the time. Not saying a built short block is a bad way to go, it isn't....like anything, it's a personal decision.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Jul 30, 2014 at 10:51 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Sorry, didn't meant to state the obvious....IDK what you know.
I've never heard of "matching lifters to springs". Obviously, if you use a heavier lifter, you need a stronger spring....I bet most hydraulic roller lifters weigh about the same though. The more important driver of spring selection is really the lobe profile of the cam; the lift, peak operating RPM and how fast the ramp rate is.
It is worth having a roller cam (using a roller block or otherwise). For performance, efficiency, and for longevity.
IMO, it would be cheaper to piece together the parts for a stroker, and assemble it yourself. To ME, the assembled short block is for the person who is unsure of his abilities building, and/or doesn't want to invest the time. Not saying a built short block is a bad way to go, it isn't....like anything, it's a personal decision.
I've never heard of "matching lifters to springs". Obviously, if you use a heavier lifter, you need a stronger spring....I bet most hydraulic roller lifters weigh about the same though. The more important driver of spring selection is really the lobe profile of the cam; the lift, peak operating RPM and how fast the ramp rate is.
It is worth having a roller cam (using a roller block or otherwise). For performance, efficiency, and for longevity.
IMO, it would be cheaper to piece together the parts for a stroker, and assemble it yourself. To ME, the assembled short block is for the person who is unsure of his abilities building, and/or doesn't want to invest the time. Not saying a built short block is a bad way to go, it isn't....like anything, it's a personal decision.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Now that I have my car running, my focus is back on this.
I'm about to read Vizard's book on SBC motors, but in the meantime I'd like to go ahead with planning this.
Higher compression is more efficient, but requires higher octane gas. By making the stroker have a higher compression ratio, could the higher efficiency counteract the more expensive gas? Also, how significant are the performance increases from higher compression?
I've been doing some research, but I see that CR is not all that predictable, so I can't really find specific numbers for my application. I'd like to decide what CR to shoot for though. What do you think is the highest CR (I'd prefer a number for static, although dynamic would be useful too) I could have on a 383 with a moderate cam running 91 octane? I realize it's hard to predict, so I'd be happy for even educated guesses.
I found a hydraulic roller bare block that sounds like a pretty good deal. It's $600, and described as:
- Jet wash cleaned, all oil galley plugs and freeze plugs removed
- Bored
- Power stroke Honed
- Surfaced Decked
- New Cam bearings Installed
What are your thoughts?
I'm about to read Vizard's book on SBC motors, but in the meantime I'd like to go ahead with planning this.
Higher compression is more efficient, but requires higher octane gas. By making the stroker have a higher compression ratio, could the higher efficiency counteract the more expensive gas? Also, how significant are the performance increases from higher compression?
I've been doing some research, but I see that CR is not all that predictable, so I can't really find specific numbers for my application. I'd like to decide what CR to shoot for though. What do you think is the highest CR (I'd prefer a number for static, although dynamic would be useful too) I could have on a 383 with a moderate cam running 91 octane? I realize it's hard to predict, so I'd be happy for even educated guesses.
I found a hydraulic roller bare block that sounds like a pretty good deal. It's $600, and described as:
- Jet wash cleaned, all oil galley plugs and freeze plugs removed
- Bored
- Power stroke Honed
- Surfaced Decked
- New Cam bearings Installed
What are your thoughts?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
If you have an efficient aluminum head 10:5-1 is no problem at all on 91
Im running 11.5:1 on 91 (do have a lot over overlap and pull some timing)though I prefer mixing some good gas and runing more timing. Its not a "driver" though
Compression is where its at. You dont want so much the motor has to pull timing to run youll lose power but not enough the motor will have less throttle response and wont feel as snappy.
Ive done the low compression performance build thing was never happy
They ran good but always felt (and sounded) like it was missing "something". Not like 10,10-5 is a lot its not.
Im running 11.5:1 on 91 (do have a lot over overlap and pull some timing)though I prefer mixing some good gas and runing more timing. Its not a "driver" though
Compression is where its at. You dont want so much the motor has to pull timing to run youll lose power but not enough the motor will have less throttle response and wont feel as snappy.
Ive done the low compression performance build thing was never happy
They ran good but always felt (and sounded) like it was missing "something". Not like 10,10-5 is a lot its not.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 181
Likes: 2
From: Omaha Nebraska
I totally agree. Between 10:1 and 10.5:1 is what I'd shoot for with aluminum heads.
However, be careful bringing down compression with thicker head gaskets. You can lose quench and actually have greater problems with knocking. Same problem with dished pistons.
I'm not sure if that's a great deal on the block. In my city you can get that machine work (and more) done for $400. A roller block can be had for $100. Maybe your local economy is different.
However, be careful bringing down compression with thicker head gaskets. You can lose quench and actually have greater problems with knocking. Same problem with dished pistons.
I'm not sure if that's a great deal on the block. In my city you can get that machine work (and more) done for $400. A roller block can be had for $100. Maybe your local economy is different.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
I totally agree. Between 10:1 and 10.5:1 is what I'd shoot for with aluminum heads.
However, be careful bringing down compression with thicker head gaskets. You can lose quench and actually have greater problems with knocking. Same problem with dished pistons.
I'm not sure if that's a great deal on the block. In my city you can get that machine work (and more) done for $400. A roller block can be had for $100. Maybe your local economy is different.
However, be careful bringing down compression with thicker head gaskets. You can lose quench and actually have greater problems with knocking. Same problem with dished pistons.
I'm not sure if that's a great deal on the block. In my city you can get that machine work (and more) done for $400. A roller block can be had for $100. Maybe your local economy is different.
Should I look for a new block, or would an old one work just as well since I'm having it overbored anyway?
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 534
Personally, I like Tom400CFI's old day approach of finding an old 400 block and starting from there. I use to be on a 406 kick and I was always browsing local places and the web for a block to do one.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Well, I don't know if you need to go roller but you can still have a lot of fun with a non roller motor, as well. Check ebay out for guys looking to get rid of their short blocks for some quick cash. They have usually done the work for you, versus you trying to hunt down all the parts. I've seen a few basic 383 short blocks on there for $1,000 or less for a must sell ASAP condition, you just supply heads, intake, fuel, and spark. One of those with a set of cheap 113 heads ported and a TPI intake massaged or not on top would make for a very fun street car.
Personally, I like Tom400CFI's old day approach of finding an old 400 block and starting from there. I use to be on a 406 kick and I was always browsing local places and the web for a block to do one.
Personally, I like Tom400CFI's old day approach of finding an old 400 block and starting from there. I use to be on a 406 kick and I was always browsing local places and the web for a block to do one.
I'd like to just buy the bare block because the purpose of this is for me to do the work to get experience. If that wasn't my objective I'd definitely look for a short block.
I am just going to reuse the stock aluminum heads off of my L98 to cut costs.
I'd like to stick with a roller block, plus I think a 400 is more motor than I need. The 383 with catbacks, a new intake, etc. will be plenty fast.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,838
Likes: 341
From: Database Error Indiana
If you have an efficient aluminum head 10:5-1 is no problem at all on 91
Im running 11.5:1 on 91 (do have a lot over overlap and pull some timing)though I prefer mixing some good gas and runing more timing. Its not a "driver" though
Compression is where its at. You dont want so much the motor has to pull timing to run youll lose power but not enough the motor will have less throttle response and wont feel as snappy.
Ive done the low compression performance build thing was never happy
They ran good but always felt (and sounded) like it was missing "something". Not like 10,10-5 is a lot its not.
Im running 11.5:1 on 91 (do have a lot over overlap and pull some timing)though I prefer mixing some good gas and runing more timing. Its not a "driver" though
Compression is where its at. You dont want so much the motor has to pull timing to run youll lose power but not enough the motor will have less throttle response and wont feel as snappy.
Ive done the low compression performance build thing was never happy
They ran good but always felt (and sounded) like it was missing "something". Not like 10,10-5 is a lot its not.
Compression is the cheapest horsepower you can get. Choose the pistons to go with the chambers in the heads and you have it. I have LT1 flat tops with 59 cc heads. I dont recall the actual numbers but its around 10.6. A little duration/overlap with the cam makes it work tith premium pump gas, no problem. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 810
Likes: 58
From: Alva Florida
Here's my 2 cents. Id stick with the 350 to 383 build. First of all the 400 is a 2 piece rear main seal block.
1)The crankshaft and parts are not interchangeable. a 2 piece rear main seal crank will not fit a 1 piece rear main seal block (if that is a factor?)
2) 400 is a non roller block so you would either have to settle for a tappet cam and lifters (and use zinc additive) or buy the very expensive retrofit lifters.
Also remember, if either build is on the tight budget, you will likely be using an externally balanced assembly. That also means the balancer will be the larger 400 size, and will hit the crossbeam. You will need to notch it to clear the balancer. You would probably prefer the internally balanced kit for that reason.
Also, you will probably need an oil pan for the stroker crank because you clearanced the block. I did a 400 to 421 stroker, and the milodon oil pan was $350
At the end of a build, finding out all these little things can really kill your wallet and drive you nuts. Patience is the key, and getting parts cheaper takes patience and a little luck sometimes.
1)The crankshaft and parts are not interchangeable. a 2 piece rear main seal crank will not fit a 1 piece rear main seal block (if that is a factor?)
2) 400 is a non roller block so you would either have to settle for a tappet cam and lifters (and use zinc additive) or buy the very expensive retrofit lifters.
Also remember, if either build is on the tight budget, you will likely be using an externally balanced assembly. That also means the balancer will be the larger 400 size, and will hit the crossbeam. You will need to notch it to clear the balancer. You would probably prefer the internally balanced kit for that reason.
Also, you will probably need an oil pan for the stroker crank because you clearanced the block. I did a 400 to 421 stroker, and the milodon oil pan was $350
At the end of a build, finding out all these little things can really kill your wallet and drive you nuts. Patience is the key, and getting parts cheaper takes patience and a little luck sometimes.
Last edited by cadmaniac; Aug 24, 2014 at 07:52 AM.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 744
Likes: 13
From: Lenoir City TN
I haven't quite decided which stroker kit - this thread is to help me decide. However, here are a couple I'm looking at.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...e030/overview/
SB Chevy 383 Stroker Perf Master Engine Kit New Crank Pistons Moly Rings | eBay
As a side note, the Summit kit says it's for SBC Gen I, yet it lists a late year of 1985. The L98 is Gen I, correct?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'goals'. Sorry, but could you elaborate a little bit?
Here are, as I understand you thus far, my goals:
Geardo, I realize the cam is too small, but nearly all stroker kits come with a new cam. I also know the intake is too small, but based on what I've read that shouldn't be too much of a problem until higher RPMs. At some point down the road, I plan to upgrade to the FIRST TPI intake, but it costs $1000. From what I've learned so far, it seems like I would get better performance from a stroker with the stock intake than a 350 with the FIRST TPI intake. Not to mention the fact that a stroker is internal so avoids scrutiny on smog.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...e030/overview/
SB Chevy 383 Stroker Perf Master Engine Kit New Crank Pistons Moly Rings | eBay
As a side note, the Summit kit says it's for SBC Gen I, yet it lists a late year of 1985. The L98 is Gen I, correct?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'goals'. Sorry, but could you elaborate a little bit?
Here are, as I understand you thus far, my goals:
- Best 'bang for my buck in upgrading my L98 to be more fun to drive
- My budget is $1000, but if necessary I could go up to around $1500
- I want more low-end and mid-range power, as I don't plan to race it at all and just want to drive it around town
- While I want to save money up front, I don't want to do anything that will end up costing me a significant amount in the long run
Geardo, I realize the cam is too small, but nearly all stroker kits come with a new cam. I also know the intake is too small, but based on what I've read that shouldn't be too much of a problem until higher RPMs. At some point down the road, I plan to upgrade to the FIRST TPI intake, but it costs $1000. From what I've learned so far, it seems like I would get better performance from a stroker with the stock intake than a 350 with the FIRST TPI intake. Not to mention the fact that a stroker is internal so avoids scrutiny on smog.
This kit shows a two piece rear main seal, which your current one may be a one piece, also it shows flat lifters where yours may be roller.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Here's my 2 cents. Id stick with the 350 to 383 build. First of all the 400 is a 2 piece rear main seal block.
1)The crankshaft and parts are not interchangeable. a 2 piece rear main seal crank will not fit a 1 piece rear main seal block (if that is a factor?)
2) 400 is a non roller block so you would either have to settle for a tappet cam and lifters (and use zinc additive) or buy the very expensive retrofit lifters.
Also remember, if either build is on the tight budget, you will likely be using an externally balanced assembly. That also means the balancer will be the larger 400 size, and will hit the crossbeam. You will need to notch it to clear the balancer. You would probably prefer the internally balanced kit for that reason.
Also, you will probably need an oil pan for the stroker crank because you clearanced the block. I did a 400 to 421 stroker, and the milodon oil pan was $350
At the end of a build, finding out all these little things can really kill your wallet and drive you nuts. Patience is the key, and getting parts cheaper takes patience and a little luck sometimes.
1)The crankshaft and parts are not interchangeable. a 2 piece rear main seal crank will not fit a 1 piece rear main seal block (if that is a factor?)
2) 400 is a non roller block so you would either have to settle for a tappet cam and lifters (and use zinc additive) or buy the very expensive retrofit lifters.
Also remember, if either build is on the tight budget, you will likely be using an externally balanced assembly. That also means the balancer will be the larger 400 size, and will hit the crossbeam. You will need to notch it to clear the balancer. You would probably prefer the internally balanced kit for that reason.
Also, you will probably need an oil pan for the stroker crank because you clearanced the block. I did a 400 to 421 stroker, and the milodon oil pan was $350
At the end of a build, finding out all these little things can really kill your wallet and drive you nuts. Patience is the key, and getting parts cheaper takes patience and a little luck sometimes.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Compression is the cheapest horsepower you can get. Choose the pistons to go with the chambers in the heads and you have it. I have LT1 flat tops with 59 cc heads. I dont recall the actual numbers but its around 10.6. A little duration/overlap with the cam makes it work tith premium pump gas, no problem. 
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 46
From: Lynchburg, VA
Second, my engine isn't idling at 2500. I'm not sure where you got that from. It was idling at 1900, and I got it down to 1000. Still not quite as low as it should be, but I haven't had time to try to adjust the idle again after I got it running. I also feel I have more important things to deal with at the moment than dropping the idle a few hundred RPM. However, if the idle being a little high is a big problem - or is a sign of one - please let me know and I'll put that on the top of my list of things to do.
EDIT: I think my IAC valve worm gear is stripped. I'm working on confirming that this is the case.
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; Aug 25, 2014 at 04:15 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,094
Likes: 282
From: Phila., PA burbs
I'm a little late to the thread, but I'll offer you my thread form a couple years back when I did my 383 build. I also did it with a budget in mind, although I still spent a bit more then you're proposing. I had a reputable engine guy build me a four bolt main, 383 short block. I added an LPE 219 cam and a set of used TPIS ported 113 heads. I already had a ported plenum, Accel base and a set of AS&M runners. I picked up the short block from the builder, removed the old engine, set-up the new one and installed it in the car. Including gaskets, tuning and any odds and ends I needed, I probably have about $3500 in the new engine. I also sold a bunch of old parts (block, heads and even the old cam) for around $500 or so, leaving me at around 3k out of pocket for the new build. 
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...o-results.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...o-results.html