Need for Cats
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Tx
Need for Cats
I'd like to wave a red flag and suggest that for most everyday cars on the street that well functioning catalytic converters are what we need to be using. Forget the legalities. Air is movable, and todays air in Montana is tomorrows air in Chicago. Breathing lousy air is really bad for you-- asthma, cancer, heart attacks. Shouldn't we be using our brains to go fast and keep the air clean at the same time.
With today's cat technology (Random Cats), the hp loss is very small, at least up to 600hp. How many of us honestly have that kind of gusto on the street? 1 out of 500? I fully agree that we ought to get rid of EGR if possible, for all sorts of hp, eficiency, and driveability reasons. But cats are different, it would seem. They do require complicated electronics and sensors to work correctly, but that same electronics increases hp, efficiency, etc.
OK, Let me have it.
With today's cat technology (Random Cats), the hp loss is very small, at least up to 600hp. How many of us honestly have that kind of gusto on the street? 1 out of 500? I fully agree that we ought to get rid of EGR if possible, for all sorts of hp, eficiency, and driveability reasons. But cats are different, it would seem. They do require complicated electronics and sensors to work correctly, but that same electronics increases hp, efficiency, etc.
OK, Let me have it.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Need for Cats (tkrussell)
No argument here.
A guy in SW FL made back-to-back runs with true 3" duals on a built up '87 Vette with/without dual RT hi-flow cats and got exactly the same trap speed.
The EGR could likely go and no problem with todays cats.
The AIR tubes are the real PITA for me though. They are always in the way and the belt-driven AIR pump is sucking up valuable HP. I could see an electric motor that only pumps air into the cat(s) and just use heated O2 sensor(s).
This would be a great push area for the aftermarket boys; think of the business they could get from us. It takes a group with clout to make the EPA types listen. Maybe more sales tax revenues would get the states' attention.
A guy in SW FL made back-to-back runs with true 3" duals on a built up '87 Vette with/without dual RT hi-flow cats and got exactly the same trap speed.
The EGR could likely go and no problem with todays cats.
The AIR tubes are the real PITA for me though. They are always in the way and the belt-driven AIR pump is sucking up valuable HP. I could see an electric motor that only pumps air into the cat(s) and just use heated O2 sensor(s).
This would be a great push area for the aftermarket boys; think of the business they could get from us. It takes a group with clout to make the EPA types listen. Maybe more sales tax revenues would get the states' attention.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,540
Likes: 1
From: And on the fifth day, subpoenas were served to Obama senior staff
Re: Need for Cats (tkrussell)
I agree on the cats. Except the pre-cats. Useless pieces of junk to try and stop such subtile start up emissions, clog up and burn - cause more use of fuel which is causing more pollution then the working pups every prevented. Useless EPA nonsence (IMO).
Ok, disagree totally on EGR. No effect on HP, none. EGR does nothing at WOT. Agree that it is a pain when it malfunctions, and the system can be tiring to troubleshoot. However in a properly designed setup valve timing can compensate in a similar manner for EGR function and EPA should allow this modification if the engine builder desires (and has sufficient knowledge to accomplish).
Pete
OK, Let me have it.
Pete
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Need for Cats (PeteL)
Of course lets put things into perspective here too.
Consider the number of us "enthusiasts" who drive without emissions gear and how much time we actually spend on the highway.
Just drive behind a school bus, a garbage truck, a dump truck, a semi, etc. It the stench from these vehicles doesn't burn your eyes and nostrels you're a better man.
So the clean air advocates realy need to press for changes to these vehicles that are doing the most to polute our air. But that won't happen because it's much easier and more $$ beneficial to hassle us.
Consider the number of us "enthusiasts" who drive without emissions gear and how much time we actually spend on the highway.
Just drive behind a school bus, a garbage truck, a dump truck, a semi, etc. It the stench from these vehicles doesn't burn your eyes and nostrels you're a better man.
So the clean air advocates realy need to press for changes to these vehicles that are doing the most to polute our air. But that won't happen because it's much easier and more $$ beneficial to hassle us.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: Colleyville Texas
Re: Need for Cats (tkrussell)
The small number of high performance cars running the streets of Dallas without cats is not the problem. Its the pickup trucks with 20 guys going to cut grass parked at the 7/11 for breakfast that's the problem.JMHO
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,950
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette LA
Re: Need for Cats (Red Rocket)
Speaking of cats and EGR!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=353352
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=353379
:seeya
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=353352
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=353379
:seeya
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Tx
Re: Need for Cats (tkrussell)
Thanks for the comments.
Amen to the old pickup trucks and other old cars that fog the air. Most of them probably put out more pollution than 20 of our cars with the cats off.
Amen also to the large trucks, buses, and other diesels that raise a black cloud with every acceleration. I'm told that diesel exhaust is many times worse than gasoline engine exhaust.
Finally, I think there is nothing prettier than a nice set of long headers on a Vette engine, and the AIR plumbing spoils the view even if it is harmless to performance.
Amen to the old pickup trucks and other old cars that fog the air. Most of them probably put out more pollution than 20 of our cars with the cats off.
Amen also to the large trucks, buses, and other diesels that raise a black cloud with every acceleration. I'm told that diesel exhaust is many times worse than gasoline engine exhaust.
Finally, I think there is nothing prettier than a nice set of long headers on a Vette engine, and the AIR plumbing spoils the view even if it is harmless to performance.
