Do I need additives for long engine life? - Page 2 - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Notices
C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Do I need additives for long engine life?

Old 10-22-2014, 10:41 AM
  #21  
namvette69
Junior Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

One trick that I picked up from a fellow who has worked on 1000s of corvettes is to use diesel oil, usually in the 10-40 to 15-45 range, on older vettes. The zinc in the oil helps preserve the inner parts of the engine. If you're going to go racing the oil might be to thick.
namvette69 is offline  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:20 AM
  #22  
Tom400CFI
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 13,608
Thanked 573 Times in 512 Posts
Default

Maybe. On what basis do you make that recommondation, other than that 'you heard if from a guy"?

This Excellent post (scroll down to "Rejected option 1") shows evidence that using Rotella could be harmful in a gasoline engine. I'm not a chemical engineer, so I wouldn't be likely to switch to Rotella w/o understanding the science/chemistry behind it. -especially when I already see better than necessary engine life w/the oil that is recommended.
Tom400CFI is offline  
Old 10-22-2014, 03:25 PM
  #23  
Dt86
CF Senior Member
 
Dt86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: Poughkeepsie New York
Posts: 3,606
Thanked 217 Times in 203 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WW7 View Post
True, but Sta-bil only stabilizes the fuel,it's not used in the engine directly.....It has also been proven to work by independent tests and by the fact that my own fuel doesn't turn to varnish when it's been in the tank for a year..Sta-bil is easy to prove it works....If a product is making a motor last longer or not is much harder to prove...WW
I'm a faithful user of sta-bil. New York is seasonal and thus I have seasonal equipment. Trimmers,blowers,mower,snow thrower, etc. I don't empty the gasoline tanks while they sit unused for months. I've been using sta-bil for a decade this way and all of my engines start right up when going back in service. I have a 2 cycle gas jug that probably has had gas with sta-bil in it for almost 2 years and it runs through the engines fine.
Dt86 is offline  
Old 10-22-2014, 06:20 PM
  #24  
93 ragtop
CF Senior Member
 
93 ragtop's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2000
Location: Manassas VA
Posts: 5,261
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I have a 91 model cub cadet 1320. I have never used any additives in the gas, and I keep gas in it throughout the year. Never had a problem from it. Keep in mind my area has had alcohol added to the gas way before it was mandated nationally.

With the oil, several years ago, I pulled the heads on my 93 with 99,000 miles and was amazed how clean it was. No additives, just mobil 1 oil.
93 ragtop is offline  
Old 10-23-2014, 12:54 PM
  #25  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by leesvet View Post
I cannot speak for ANY other product and you MAY be correct in that Prolong did not HARM my engine, but you have to wonder, how many 100's of thousands of miles does it have to go before "not harming" turns into "helped"? I'm seriously considering letting this one go to 300,000 before dropping the new build in...that's only a few short months away. When I DO, I will tear it down, measure the wear and then if you're lucky, I'll post the results, which I already know, that this product when used as directed does reduce friction and wear, just as the independent test result showed. So, it does not harm my engine?
What do I change if I DO want to see 300,000 miles on this build?
Not a Fuc*ing thing ! That means, keep adding Prolong to the oil because IMHO, it WILL help....

You see, I've already got experience with a tear down and seeing physical results from the use of this product. That was a little less than 200K, but when you see mains that show virtually no wear, and pistons that have almost no scuffing on the skirts and rings that are still tight, after nearly 200K...you have to ask? whats different? In that case it was the use of Prolong. Again, people will fear what they do not understand.
In reality, all you have proven is nothing. The only way to prove anything is to have a teardown of several identical engines under identical conditions of operation. Had you not put Prolong into the engine and instead sacrificed a goat every week, you might claim the same thing. That the goat sacrifice helped. You have not proven if the engine could have made the same distance without the stuff. You cannot compare a Toyota engine with a Mercedes engine either. You need to compare several L98 engines with each other after being run under the same conditions. That is why we have laboratories for that sort of work.

That the manufacturer will not do such tests and publish results of an accredited and independent laboratory speaks volumes about the product.
aklim is offline  
Old 10-23-2014, 01:46 PM
  #26  
BBNJKen
CF Senior Member
 
BBNJKen's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2003
Location: Clifton NJ
Posts: 137
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default MY favorite additive

I use Mobil1 5W-30 in my 96 CE. At the completion of each oil change, I add 2-6 oz of bourbon of choice to the operator. My engine runs great!

BBNJKen is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to BBNJKen For This Useful Post:
Crossed Flags Fan (12-19-2017)
Old 10-23-2014, 03:58 PM
  #27  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by BBNJKen View Post
I use Mobil1 5W-30 in my 96 CE. At the completion of each oil change, I add 2-6 oz of bourbon of choice to the operator. My engine runs great!

Would a virgin sacrifice work as well?
aklim is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 11:35 AM
  #28  
vader86
CF Senior Member
 
vader86's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Athens AL
Posts: 49,864
Thanked 186 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DGXR View Post
Sta-Bil is an additive. Lots of people here on CF not only use it but also recommend it.
If you keep the car put up in winter then try it.

Otherwise save it for the lawnmower or boat in winter. I would recommend it for any boat that you don't take out of water in wintertime for sure.
vader86 is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 11:51 AM
  #29  
cuisinartvette
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Valencia Ca.
Posts: 66,730
Thanked 988 Times in 912 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05
Default

Tried Prolong in a 5.0 I had back in the 80s
Could swear it idled a little higher afterward maybe the IAC got dirty lol

Bout a yr later there were many reports of teflon clogging oil pump pickups. These days I use about any oil thats available unless its for the weekend toy but still use a good filter
cuisinartvette is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 11:55 AM
  #30  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
Tried Prolong in a 5.0 I had back in the 80s
Could swear it idled a little higher afterward maybe the IAC got dirty lol

Bout a yr later there were many reports of teflon clogging oil pump pickups. These days I use about any oil thats available unless its for the weekend toy but still use a good filter
I'm not sure how the Teflon thing works. It makes it sound like you can massage it onto engine parts when I think the process for sticking it onto a pan is more involved. Alas, all I hear is the people who think it does something but no real scientific evidence of efficacy.

As I have often asked, if a company wants to peddle a product, why are they so afraid of having an independent laboratory that is accredited do the work of testing and publish the unedited results with the method of testing used for all to see? Unless the test results might no go their way and support the claims?

Last edited by aklim; 10-24-2014 at 11:58 AM.
aklim is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 12:15 PM
  #31  
Tom400CFI
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tom400CFI's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Park City Utah
Posts: 13,608
Thanked 573 Times in 512 Posts
Default



As for the teflon thing, Slock50 made the same claims too. If it reduced friction so much that it idled higher, I'd certainly expect to see a ver noticeable jump in fuel economy too. But you don't (I never have).

Also, lets say there is teflon in there. Let's say it does some how attach itself to metal surfaces and presumably reduces friction. How much teflon is in that bottle? Probably not much. Let's say that there is enough to coat all the wear surfaces of a V8 engine.

Now, once you pour the bottle in, how does the Teflon "know" which metal surfaces to adhere to? I'm going go ahead and say that IF there is Teflon in there at all, and IF it does adhere to metal surfaces all by itself, then it's also going to adhere to ALL the metal surface area in an engine: the oil pan. The valley of the V, china walls and the cylinder heads/valve area. The crank counterweights, the undersides of the pistons. The back of the timing cover. All that is a LOT of surface area. What is left, to "protect and reduce friction" in the bearings?

Those products don't pass the "gut check test" (for me), they don't produce objective (measurable) results, and as Aklim pointed out, where are the 3rd party results? Why doesn't Exxon/Mobil buy it to add to Mobil 1, if it's so great?

And looking back at my pictures....What am *I* missing out on, by not having spent my money on the stuff?
Tom400CFI is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 05:58 PM
  #32  
Silver96ce
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,492
Thanked 55 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post


As for the teflon thing, Slock50 made the same claims too. If it reduced friction so much that it idled higher, I'd certainly expect to see a ver noticeable jump in fuel economy too. But you don't (I never have).

Also, lets say there is teflon in there. Let's say it does some how attach itself to metal surfaces and presumably reduces friction. How much teflon is in that bottle? Probably not much. Let's say that there is enough to coat all the wear surfaces of a V8 engine.

Now, once you pour the bottle in, how does the Teflon "know" which metal surfaces to adhere to? I'm going go ahead and say that IF there is Teflon in there at all, and IF it does adhere to metal surfaces all by itself, then it's also going to adhere to ALL the metal surface area in an engine: the oil pan. The valley of the V, china walls and the cylinder heads/valve area. The crank counterweights, the undersides of the pistons. The back of the timing cover. All that is a LOT of surface area. What is left, to "protect and reduce friction" in the bearings?

Those products don't pass the "gut check test" (for me), they don't produce objective (measurable) results, and as Aklim pointed out, where are the 3rd party results? Why doesn't Exxon/Mobil buy it to add to Mobil 1, if it's so great?

And looking back at my pictures....What am *I* missing out on, by not having spent my money on the stuff?
Teflon is non-sticky in all directions meaning it is not going to "coat" the engine parts. In order to get teflon to stick to something, the surface has to be made "scratchy" by sandblasting. Then a thin coat is sprayed on and baked at a high temp. I think for it to adhere to any engine parts would require that they be in very bad shape - scratched cylinder bores, damaged and scratched main bearings, etc. At that point I think the engine would too far gone for teflon to help anything.
So it's only a selling gimmick - and apparently millions over the years have bought into it. The only good it is doing is to the bottom line of the companies marketing it. There are so many gimmicks for cars today that I would go broke getting all of them. The airfoil that adds hp, oil additives, special filters for oil and air, multi-ground strap spark plugs and on and on. And anybody remember the graphite oil - I think it was marketed in the late '70s early '80s by Citgo. Yeah let's add graphite to the oil - what a great idea.

Tom, you are completely 100% right about not needing additives for the oil. Modern oils do a fantastic job lubricating and protecting the engine. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that the cheapest synthetic I know of - Walmart - probably does a better job than the best oil made 25 years ago.
Silver96ce is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 06:54 PM
  #33  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

I asked Lingenfelter about it. His engine came with a warranty. He has to know we beat the engine. When asked about additives for future use, I think he called it "mouse milk".

I have to think he has forgotten more about engine building than I would ever know
aklim is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:10 PM
  #34  
WW7
CF Senior Member
 
WW7's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: WV
Posts: 8,488
Thanked 271 Times in 232 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I asked Lingenfelter about it. His engine came with a warranty. He has to know we beat the engine. When asked about additives for future use, I think he called it "mouse milk".

I have to think he has forgotten more about engine building than I would ever know
You do know John Lingenfelter died 11 years ago right, so right now you probably know much more then he does about engine building.......WW
WW7 is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:31 PM
  #35  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by WW7 View Post
You do know John Lingenfelter died 11 years ago right, so right now you probably know much more then he does about engine building.......WW
Yep. Back in the late 90s, I bought his intake and headers so he did a live tune for me.
aklim is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 09:09 PM
  #36  
tx75vette
CF Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 70
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I have seen some of the additives really darken the inside of some motors.
Also seen a oil that was dyed purple cause the inside of the engine to turn black within 30k miles
tx75vette is offline  
Old 10-24-2014, 09:29 PM
  #37  
QCVette
CF Senior Member
 
QCVette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: Mclean IL
Posts: 5,572
Thanked 304 Times in 266 Posts
Default

I do not use oil additives and never had oil related failures.

I do remember a long time ago that STP was evaluated by an engineering group. Their conclusion was that they couldn't prove it hurt anything. They also said it raised the viscosity of the oil some, but said if you want thicker oil, buy thicker oil.

I was also a mechanic for a while. I noticed that several engines had a white "slime" on a lot of internal surfaces especially in the pan. I do not know for sure what caused that. When I talked with the owners it was a pretty good correlation of white slime to using STP. I can't prove it, but it happened quite a few times.

The one additive that I think could be good is Techron as a fuel additive. The reason is that it will dissolve sulfur buildup. A frequent problem with C5's and other cars is that the fuel level sending unit is in the tank and they stop working because of the sulfur buildup. Techron has cured quite a few sending units.

Overall, I tend to think of additives as snake oil that add very little and may worsen the conditions. Without proof, it is hard to believe most claims. I think many people try them as a last ditch effort and a wish that they will miraculously fix a mechanical problem. I suspect they rarely fix the problems.
QCVette is offline  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:07 AM
  #38  
ToniJ1960
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2013
Location: Granite City Illinois
Posts: 875
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

I cant give any proof either way, and I surte wont claim you `need` any additives.

I used slick50 in my car in 1988 after I had th engine rebuilt. A year or so ago I went somewhere and it was late at night the light bulb on my oil pressure gauge was out and I didnt realize, all my oil was gone.Until I heard it tapping. I though well sht its done for might as well get it home (not corvette).

Next day I found the hose to the oil gauge broke it all leaked out on my way out not the way back home. No oil pressure for 4 or 5 miles at least city driving stop and go, lights stop signs traffic.

Put in a new oil line to the gauge new oil and drove it it was fine.

Cant say if it helped or not but hard to prove it didnt.

Splitfire plugs I loved in my old car. I put them in and I could hear the difference. Used to have to be up to 35 at least 40 better, to shift into 4th with that 4cyl car. With the splitfires I could shift into 4th at 35 with no lugging.

Say what you want.
ToniJ1960 is offline  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:29 AM
  #39  
aklim
CF Senior Member
 
aklim's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford WI
Posts: 14,908
Thanked 724 Times in 710 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ToniJ1960 View Post
Cant say if it helped or not but hard to prove it didnt.

Splitfire plugs I loved in my old car. I put them in and I could hear the difference. Used to have to be up to 35 at least 40 better, to shift into 4th with that 4cyl car. With the splitfires I could shift into 4th at 35 with no lugging.
Just as hard to prove it did.

I've tried those in my friend's car. Instant improvement. Of course, they were an improvement over what came out.
aklim is offline  
Old 10-25-2014, 03:34 AM
  #40  
ToniJ1960
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2013
Location: Granite City Illinois
Posts: 875
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Exactly I cant prove it to you, but it proved to me that car could shift into 4th gear 5-10 mph sooner without it lugging.
ToniJ1960 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Do I need additives for long engine life?


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: