Bandit1977

Came across a performance L98 intake manifold made by First Fuel Injection.
Anybody have any experience or have used this manifold, I never seen them before.
https://www.firstfuelinjection.com/services.html
Just wondering how good they are, thinking this manifold would be good for a 383 build?

Thanks,
Ken

aklim

They have no tech specs that I can see at a glance so I am guessing they just have a "purty mouth".

VikingTrad3r

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/6...injection.html

and for fun

Bandit1977

Yeah I'm not finding a lot of info on them other than they have a bolt pattern to suit the Vortec heads.
I can't remember, does the aluminum L98 heads have the altered intake bolt pattern like a Vortec?

LongBeachC4

Looks like a big mouth setup. For a 383 maybe a good thing for bigger hp. I want to see someone come up with a retro sequential fuel injection setup for TPI.

C409

......... I ran one of the FIRST intakes on a 409" engine ... it performed well up to about 5800 rpm then the engine size overcame the long runners ... the runners are 1 3/4" in diameter and can be ported to 1.900" ... stock TPI is about 1 1/2" diameter ... they offer a milled down throttle body top for hood clearance for the C4 and also have a larger TB as an upgrade ... the TB is included in the price making it a very good value ... on the negative side , the runners openings were a bit out of shape and it took a lot of time to get them gasket matched ... when you think about it , there are 40 holes to match up to gaskets ... I eventually replaced the FIRST with a single plane intake ... because I like to drag race and always need to go faster ........

ezobens

My builder is currently porting a FIRST TPI for a 409 SBC going into my C3. For my application (idle to 5500 RPM street fun), I think it will be ideal.
I prefer low end torque vs high end HP so I think it's a good match.
As stated previously, these intakes are designed for low end torque vs 6000+ revving ability so decide accordingly.
The castings have plenty of meat to port and I should be able to match the flow of my 195 Profiler heads without too much drama.
I plan to run it sequentially using the LS style "411" ECM.

Not sure if I'll get it finished this Winter but I'll report back with my results!

Cliff Harris

There was one that was a big deal in all the Chevy magazines in 1990. I don't think any were actually sold. They did it by using a late C4 ECM to run the injectors but retained the old ECM. Here's an article on the system:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/cor...rvette-tuning/

Corvette40

I helped Dyno Don over at 3rd Gen install one on a stock 87 Vert along with his custom, built on the car shorty headers. IIRC, it was a real pain modifying the fuel rails to fit. Cliff just dynoed the car last month but I forget the numbers. I do remember being impressed that he gained so much on a stock motor.

MavsAK

I'm kind of debating going over to a FIRST myself.
Having an ECM that can self tune...as well as be more tuner friendly would be kind of nice.

aklim

Why would you want self tune? Do you know what the strategy is? I wouldn't. I want it tuned by my tuner to my parameters. Any skilled tuner won't be bothered by it being less tuner friendly since they have their own system

MavsAK

The self tuning systems work pretty well from what I've seen on other cars.
These aftermarket ecms aren't like our old dumb ecms, it's kind of amazing really the parameters they'll tune for on their own. It's pretty plug and play.
It'd also be kind of nice to know I have completely fresh electronics, and a fresh computer that wasn't made in the 80s or running around on 80s based tech.

plus...I think this says it all

aklim

So does the factory tune. However, we change it to get what WE want not what the factory wants. Do I want to lose control over that to someone whose strategy I cannot question? I am sure it can tune it to what the guy setting it up wants. But is it what I want? What if I want to delete something or make it run in a certain way for whatever reason I want? I can have a programmer make that change. I might not be able to have FAST do what I want.

You can have it upgraded to sequential fuel injection but what is the gain? Is it worth it? IDK.

MavsAK

Given that that the intake out of the box outflows a ported edelbrock base, and even AZ runners that part alone makes it worth it. Hell it flows as much as a stealth ram out of the box, and better than a super ram.

Plus, it can still be tuned by someone else. It's not like it's a locked situation. And it's easier to work with than OBD1 is. Sure there's tuners out there for OBD1 cars, but the amount of shops willing to work with them are far less than they were even five years ago. Just about everyone and their brother can tune the modern aftermarket ecms.

The factory tune won't even come close to being optimal. These plug and play deals get a hell of alot closer, and can reconfigure to nearly any combo you can think of without having to lift a finger. I'm sure a someone might be able to find 5 to 10 horses with a dedicated dyno tune. But that's another thing in the FIRST and the EZ EFI setups corner. There's a hell of alot more shops out there willing to touch it, and able to work with it in the first place. Also it's tunable alot more easily on your own end. There's tons of programs out there for the EZ EFI.

The newest C4 ECM is 19 years old. ECMs have come leaps and bounds since 1996. To say nothing of 1989 like my car.
Cost wise though the build's getting up there with just going LSX and getting it over with. (actually it's more than an LSX build if I cheaped out on the LSX...but I really really like the LTR looks..... I'm going to be putting a 400 shortblock kit in it here in a few months ((Three!)) so there's 3 grand..plus this... that'd be another 3 just about... I can put in a built LSX for about this cost...) so I don't know.

ezobens

That's the beauty of all the options we have available today-
If someone wants to tune it themselves to get every last ounce of power or driveability on their terms, you can.
If you're not computer savvy and want to plug and play, you can.
There is no right or wrong way to go-

I'm a gluten for punishment so I am going to attempt using the 411 ECM and tuning it with EFI Live but I do see the 'turn-key' appeal of using something like FAST EFI to get on the road immediately.
It's all about personal preference and what you want to get out of your ride.
Isn't freedom of choice a wonderful thing?!

ch@0s

Out with the old in with the new technology only gets better. I would definitely go with a FISRT if I wanted TPI.

cv67

x2
If you love the look doesnt get better than a FIRST; for the money you really get a lot.

C409

..... Take a look at the Holley HP series ECU's for an easy self learning EFI controller ... plus you can hook it to your laptop and tell it what you want it to do ... VERY user friendly ... I'm running the Holley Dominator since I installed a 4L60E trans in the car and the Dominator will control it too ! ............

ch@0s

The way I look at iook I could have bought one ..instead I spent 800 bucks on tuning so far and now I need another tune..and will need more in the future EvERY time I make a change $3-400.. Its worth it.

aklim

I'm lazy. I don't want to guess and guess at it on the road nor can I afford a chassis dyno so I don't want to DIY. Besides, I'd rather drive than "back to the drawing board" concerning tuning. I realize it takes a lot of trial and error to get good at something. I'm willing to do trial and error on someone's dime but not on MY dime. Since I don't make enough modification that requires a tune every few months like a race team might, I'm kinda left with letting an expert set the tune.