89 vette Ignition Switch or Cylinder Issue?
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89 vette Ignition Switch or Cylinder Issue?
1989 Auto Corvette, 103k miles with new ZZ4 shortblock installed recently, transmission just rebuilt, new computer installed
My ‘vette has had no trouble starting, but recently on 2 separate occasions my vette just ‘died’ while idling at a red light as if the ignition key was turned off – no engine, no radio, no lights – but started right back up after I turned the key again.
I’ve tried jiggling the key once the engine is running and lightly banging the steering column but haven’t been able to replicate the problem. I fear that the problem may occur again.
Does this sound like a cylinder lock or the ignition switch issue? What would be my best course of action to fix this?
If you replace the cylinder lock, do the original keys still work?
As you see in my car’s description, I’ve done a lot of recent work and wanted to make sure that it wasn’t something related to that. I was very careful with ground straps and even put in extra engine to dash ground straps.
My ‘vette has had no trouble starting, but recently on 2 separate occasions my vette just ‘died’ while idling at a red light as if the ignition key was turned off – no engine, no radio, no lights – but started right back up after I turned the key again.
I’ve tried jiggling the key once the engine is running and lightly banging the steering column but haven’t been able to replicate the problem. I fear that the problem may occur again.
Does this sound like a cylinder lock or the ignition switch issue? What would be my best course of action to fix this?
If you replace the cylinder lock, do the original keys still work?
As you see in my car’s description, I’ve done a lot of recent work and wanted to make sure that it wasn’t something related to that. I was very careful with ground straps and even put in extra engine to dash ground straps.
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Usually the new cylinder will come with new keys. I think it might be possible to swap the pins from the old to the new and then the old keys would work. I don't know why you would want to do this because the new keys should do what you need (just make sure the resistor pellet is the correct value if your car has VATS).
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With the introduction of VATS the assembly of the ignition cylinder prohibits the swapping of the pins/tumblers. A new cylinder will come with a "work key", that is a brass key with only a mechanical code that rotates that cylinder. You would need to have new keys made using the mechanical code of the "work key" and the corresponding correct resistance value of your car (old key).
As long as it cranks/starts I'd maybe NOT rush to judgment of the ignition cylinder components.
The switch on the column would be more likely, it's also easier some think to replace and the inspection of the two connectors at the switch might be a good indicator of a possible problem.
As long as it cranks/starts I'd maybe NOT rush to judgment of the ignition cylinder components.
The switch on the column would be more likely, it's also easier some think to replace and the inspection of the two connectors at the switch might be a good indicator of a possible problem.
Last edited by WVZR-1; Mar 19, 2015 at 12:52 AM.
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As long as it cranks/starts I'd maybe NOT rush to judgment of the ignition cylinder components.
Is the ignition switch only used when starting the engine - is it needed once the engine is running?
When these two incidents occurred, I really thought my car was completely dead and thinking I'm going to have to get a tow - and so rushed hastily to turn the key again and surprisingly started right up. If it occurs again I have checklist of things to double check - one of those items is to make sure the key position is in 'run' or 'on' position - there is a small chance that maybe it jiggled out of position - though I do have only a couple keys on the key ring. If it did jiggle out of position, I believe the SAS lights would blink - I'm pretty sure that everything was just dead but like I say, I'll check on the next occurrence.
Last edited by barrypaul2005; Mar 19, 2015 at 01:32 AM.
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Yes, good advice. When I search around I don't see where the ignition switch or cylinder would cause the engine to just die as if the key was turned 'off' - hopefully someone would be able to say if this is not fault mode of these components. I really never found anybody that has had such a symptom when searching the forums.
Is the ignition switch only used when starting the engine - is it needed once the engine is running?
Is the ignition switch only used when starting the engine - is it needed once the engine is running?
A potential vicinity of a problem is here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1589101487
Last edited by WVZR-1; Mar 19, 2015 at 02:09 AM.
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My plans are to get a new ignition switch and inspect closely when I swap it out. It really seems that this should almost be routine maintenance after 100k miles for such an inexpensive but vital component.
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Just ordered the ignition switch ... only $15.
My Haynes says to remove dimmer switch - not sure why, the dimmer is all the way to the left of the instrument cluster.
I've seen better instructions in another thread:
Seems like this is more accurate. Curious if anyone knows why the Haynes manual says to remove dimmer switch?
I'll be getting under there in a couple days - should be a lot easier than when I replaced the heater core last month
My Haynes says to remove dimmer switch - not sure why, the dimmer is all the way to the left of the instrument cluster.
I've seen better instructions in another thread:
Just finished doing this on my 86. The ignition switch at the base of the steering colum - top left. It is actuated by a rod that is connected to the ignition key. Disconnect your battery. You need to remove the cowling under the dash. Remove the tilt wheel handle. Drop the steering column by removing the 2 bolts holding it to the dash on both sides of the column. (Make sure you support it! I used a bungy cord hooked around the column to the windshield frame The switch is held to the column by a screw and a stud. Also mounted to it is the hi-beam switch and the shifter lock cable mount. Make sure the key ignition is in the lock position when you start loosening the stud and screw. There also might be a wire on the stud that is grounding the cruise control. Whe you get all this apart diconnect the switch from the wire harness.
Connect the new switch to the harness. Note --when you by the new switch it has a plastic pin in it locking it in the "lock' postion. Slide the switch onto the rod and put the stud only back in to hold it to the column and snug it up. Remove the pin and check the key movement to see that you get start , run lock, and accessory. (at this point you might want to reconnect the battery and check the positions again.) You can fine adjust by sliding the switch up or down the column. Anyway, when you have it where you want it tighten the stud. Disconnect the battery and - reinstall the hi-beam switch checking for position by engaging the turn signal stalk until it works and feels right. lock it down. Mount the shifter lock cable bracket and ground wire and lock it down. replace and tighten the bolts that hold the column to the dash. Replace the cowling and you should be on the road.
Connect the new switch to the harness. Note --when you by the new switch it has a plastic pin in it locking it in the "lock' postion. Slide the switch onto the rod and put the stud only back in to hold it to the column and snug it up. Remove the pin and check the key movement to see that you get start , run lock, and accessory. (at this point you might want to reconnect the battery and check the positions again.) You can fine adjust by sliding the switch up or down the column. Anyway, when you have it where you want it tighten the stud. Disconnect the battery and - reinstall the hi-beam switch checking for position by engaging the turn signal stalk until it works and feels right. lock it down. Mount the shifter lock cable bracket and ground wire and lock it down. replace and tighten the bolts that hold the column to the dash. Replace the cowling and you should be on the road.
I'll be getting under there in a couple days - should be a lot easier than when I replaced the heater core last month
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Just ordered the ignition switch ... only $15.
My Haynes says to remove dimmer switch - not sure why, the dimmer is all the way to the left of the instrument cluster.
I've seen better instructions in another thread:
Seems like this is more accurate. Curious if anyone knows why the Haynes manual says to remove dimmer switch?
I'll be getting under there in a couple days - should be a lot easier than when I replaced the heater core last month
My Haynes says to remove dimmer switch - not sure why, the dimmer is all the way to the left of the instrument cluster.
I've seen better instructions in another thread:
Seems like this is more accurate. Curious if anyone knows why the Haynes manual says to remove dimmer switch?
I'll be getting under there in a couple days - should be a lot easier than when I replaced the heater core last month
You should have bought the switch "locally" - what part # and where did you buy from?
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Thread Starter
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My mistake... the dimmer switch they talk about is the hi-beam switch, so misleading to call that a dimmer switch.
I'll be getting the job done by the end of the week. Car's been running fine in the mean time.
I should have bought the FSM when I bought the car
... now I'm just being stubborn since I've survived a complete engine rebuild and all else that needed fixing the last 22 years.
I'll be getting the job done by the end of the week. Car's been running fine in the mean time.
I should have bought the FSM when I bought the car
... now I'm just being stubborn since I've survived a complete engine rebuild and all else that needed fixing the last 22 years.
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From: Anaheim CA
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This was an interesting one...
Got the job done yesterday, nice that the steering column drops down like it does. Took me a couple hours to understand and get good access.
The old switch looked pretty clean for an original part, the contacts where actually still shiny.
I put the old ignition switch on my bench and measured resistance while in run mode, the first detent over from the start position. The detent seemed slightly loose in that it can be moved around with less force than the new switch, though not freely.
Sure enough, if I jiggle while in the run position just a hair while staying within the detent, there is an 'open' or infinite resistance that occurs, also resistance hops around between 0 ohms to 100k to infinite all while still in the 'run' position. It was mostly 0 ohms but it only takes the tiniest jiggle to get that open. So that internal part of the switch has some contamination/wear at least in the run position.
As Cliff said:
... that ignition switch is quite an important part not just for starting but for running.
Side Note : I added a battery shut-off switch on the negative side of the battery couple months ago - I wanted to confirm that this would not ever stall the engine, so with the engine running - I disconnected the switch (thus disconnecting the battery) and the engine did not stop and continued running . I expected this since the alternator supplies the voltage when the cars running but just wanted to rule out that cut-off switch can never stall the engine.
It is so satisfying to find the root cause of the intermittent stall problem - I hope this helps others if they find a similar symptoms.
cheers
Got the job done yesterday, nice that the steering column drops down like it does. Took me a couple hours to understand and get good access.
The old switch looked pretty clean for an original part, the contacts where actually still shiny.
I put the old ignition switch on my bench and measured resistance while in run mode, the first detent over from the start position. The detent seemed slightly loose in that it can be moved around with less force than the new switch, though not freely.
Sure enough, if I jiggle while in the run position just a hair while staying within the detent, there is an 'open' or infinite resistance that occurs, also resistance hops around between 0 ohms to 100k to infinite all while still in the 'run' position. It was mostly 0 ohms but it only takes the tiniest jiggle to get that open. So that internal part of the switch has some contamination/wear at least in the run position.
As Cliff said:
The engine will not run if that power is interrupted.
Side Note : I added a battery shut-off switch on the negative side of the battery couple months ago - I wanted to confirm that this would not ever stall the engine, so with the engine running - I disconnected the switch (thus disconnecting the battery) and the engine did not stop and continued running . I expected this since the alternator supplies the voltage when the cars running but just wanted to rule out that cut-off switch can never stall the engine.
It is so satisfying to find the root cause of the intermittent stall problem - I hope this helps others if they find a similar symptoms.
cheers