Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,858
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Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion?
Recently did throttle body coolant bypass same time I installed 160 thermostat. Although I don't plan to do too much winter driving (gets down to 20's 30's here in winter) the prospect of throttle body frost or ice crossed my mind. Thought of an idea, maybe it's ridiculous but I'm throwing it out there anyhow. How come a mod couldn't be devised that would work like a a heat strip on a water pipe: small heat electrically powered heat strip is affixed to the throttle body and activated manually off a switch mounted in the cockpit. Would this concept be viable substitute for the ~190 - 200 degree coolant flowing through the throttle body, so as to keep it from icing up in sub freezing weather? Just wondering.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,733
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From: Sarasota FL
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Lone Ranger)
I don't think the TB heating is as much for icing as for Emissions. I have been driving for a couple of years without it and have not had a problem down to 5 deg or so. Unless you drive in the "Great White North" I don't think it is an issue.
I would think it would be easier to put a valve in the water bypass circuit to divert hot water to the TB when desired.
I would think it would be easier to put a valve in the water bypass circuit to divert hot water to the TB when desired.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
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From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (DON M)
Actually I am not sure about this, but I think the worst icing conditions would occur with moist air and outside temperatures in the 30's. The air as it goes by the throttle plates speed up & cool off. Thus moist air slightly above 32 will cool & the moisture will "freeze" as it goes by the throttle plates. Colder air is usually dryer & wouldn't contain the moisture needed to form ice.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,540
Likes: 1
From: And on the fifth day, subpoenas were served to Obama senior staff
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (LT4BUD)
LT4BUD you are exactly right. No worries of TB freeze below 32*, not enough relative humidity. Between 32 and 50* is the problem zone (and probably between 32 and 40 on our TB's, as no large venturi effect).
You must have a pilot in the family! Carb heat!
However, never heard of one freeze, but who knows. Stuff happens.
[Modified by PeteL, 8:29 PM 8/14/2002]
You must have a pilot in the family! Carb heat!
However, never heard of one freeze, but who knows. Stuff happens.
[Modified by PeteL, 8:29 PM 8/14/2002]
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,858
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Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (PeteL)
There isn't *any* venturi effect in the tb is there? I thought only carbs had that? PP-ASEL here :)
LT4BUD you are exactly right. No worries of TB freeze below 32*, not enough relative humidity. Between 32 and 50* is the problem zone (and probably between 32 and 40 on our TB's, as no large venturi effect).
You must have a pilot in the family! Carb heat!
However, never heard of one freeze, but who knows. Stuff happens.
[Modified by PeteL, 8:29 PM 8/14/2002]
You must have a pilot in the family! Carb heat!
However, never heard of one freeze, but who knows. Stuff happens.
[Modified by PeteL, 8:29 PM 8/14/2002]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 8,540
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From: And on the fifth day, subpoenas were served to Obama senior staff
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Lone Ranger)
There is some venturi effect in the TB, especially at lesser throttle openings. First thread I have seen on this forum to recognize why GM heated the TB. Take a look and you can see it!
I have the TB heat in place, however not sure it is really needed. The engine heat soaks these intakes fairly effectly. Note every serious racer on this forum uses ice blankets to cool the intakes between runs. And as I said, in all the years I've been reading this forum, I have never heard of a TB icing problem (however there are few here that would recognise it, but also some that would.).
I have the TB heat in place, however not sure it is really needed. The engine heat soaks these intakes fairly effectly. Note every serious racer on this forum uses ice blankets to cool the intakes between runs. And as I said, in all the years I've been reading this forum, I have never heard of a TB icing problem (however there are few here that would recognise it, but also some that would.).
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (PeteL)
Pete, I agree with your thinking that the engine heat will warm the throttle bottle & therefore most likely icing would not be a problem once the engine is at temperature. The problem would be most serious during warmup. My quess is that if you have done a TB bypass it would be smart to warm the engine a little before driving it. I just did mine about 2 weeks ago so I have no experience yet in cool weather.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,994
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From: Charleston, WV
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (LT4BUD)
I have had mine unhooked for years and lots of miles with no problems at all...........the only time my engine is EVER grouchy is when I visit Detroit in the winter and have to park in a parking lot in a hotel........ then it's just grouchy 'till it warms up.........It DID however almost NOT START in upstate NY a couple years ago ............but that was do to the heavy oil I use...... :seeya
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Pro
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 700
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From: Derby Kansas
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Lone Ranger)
I've done the bypass to my previously owned 92 Z28 (TPI), 95 Z28 (LT-1) and now to my 85 Corvette. I have 5 friends who have done it to their F-Bodies with LT-1's and L-98's. Here in Kansas we have almost every weather condition you could think of. We all use our cars as daily drivers and have driven our cars in freezing rain, snow, and even with with temps as low as -10 (once or twice). It's not unusual for us to go a week at a time with the temps never getting above 20 with a few days here and there of it not going above 10. You should do whatever you feel comfortable with, but...... NONE of us have ever had any problems with the throttle body acting up.
[Modified by Ron78Z&85Vette, 12:58 PM 8/15/2002]
[Modified by Ron78Z&85Vette, 12:58 PM 8/15/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,793
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From: Elizabeth City, NC
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Ron78Z&85Vette)
Oh course I have to be the exception to the rule....I had mine freeze up on me one night. I was driving back from Jens house and it happened to be snowing where I lived and not at her house. At the time I had a ram air set up on the car. Not sure if that affected it at all or not. But trying to drive a 6spd vette on icy snowy roads at night when the throttle is sticking in every possible position is not fun. It made the last 10 miles of the drive very interesting. But that was not enough of a deterent to reconnect the water to the TB. It only happened that one time I guess the conditions were perfect. So it can happen...it's just not likely.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,858
Likes: 2
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (LPDesRoche)
At the time I had a ram air set up on the car. Not sure if that affected it at all or not.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
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Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Ron78Z&85Vette)
Show me convinced. If the TB bypass can tolerate a Kansas winter, then no need for tb coolant flow in 90% of winter conditions... given that you're not sucking in moisture through a cold air induction system.
Here in Kansas we have almost every weather condition you could think of. We all use our cars as daily drivers and have driven our cars in freezing rain, snow, and even with with temps as low as -10 (once or twice).
[Modified by Ron78Z&85Vette, 12:58 PM 8/15/2002]
[Modified by Ron78Z&85Vette, 12:58 PM 8/15/2002]
Pro
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 700
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From: Derby Kansas
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (LPDesRoche)
Interesting..........This upcoming winter will be the first I'll be driving in the snow (hopefully) with the SLP Ram air. Last winter I was deployed in "Sand Land" for the latest "festivities". Who knows... I may have a story to tell similar to Lee's after our first good snow here.
:cheers:
:cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,150
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From: Timra, Sweden
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Lone Ranger)
Isn't the throttle body coolant hose connected to the heater? In that case it will only flow coolant when you have the heater on ... usually in cold weater ...
If so then the bypass will do close to nothong with the heater off.
If so then the bypass will do close to nothong with the heater off.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,858
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Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (JoBy)
Isn't the throttle body coolant hose connected to the heater? In that case it will only flow coolant when you have the heater on ... usually in cold weater ...
If so then the bypass will do close to nothong with the heater off.
If so then the bypass will do close to nothong with the heater off.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,602
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From: Palm City Florida
Re: Unique throttle body mod idea... opinion? (Lone Ranger)
Recently did throttle body coolant bypass same time I installed 160 thermostat. Although I don't plan to do too much winter driving (gets down to 20's 30's here in winter) the prospect of throttle body frost or ice crossed my mind. Thought of an idea, maybe it's ridiculous but I'm throwing it out there anyhow. How come a mod couldn't be devised that would work like a a heat strip on a water pipe: small heat electrically powered heat strip is affixed to the throttle body and activated manually off a switch mounted in the cockpit. Would this concept be viable substitute for the ~190 - 200 degree coolant flowing through the throttle body, so as to keep it from icing up in sub freezing weather? Just wondering.
Connect the freon line from the A/C through the throttle body coolant line. Like a shot of cold air. I guess this would only work in the summer. I always notice that nice cold pipe leading to the evaporator when I am under the hood. hmmmmm