I'm going to leave this here:
Eric, sums up my feelings EXACTLY 100%. I'm sure 100% another Youtube "celebrity" ScannerDanner would agree with this.

1:58-2:10, He NAILED IT!!! Its NOT that simple. NEVER is, so STOP thinking it is so.

You don't GUESS or MAKE assumptions, TEST IT, PROVE IT!!!

3:54 ID Affected System is a MUST. A code is a guide NOT a diagnosis.

5:58 UNDERSTAND THE SYSTEM.

There is a TON of FREE resources out there including this forum. Read, learn, and fix. You simply CANNOT do it CORRECTLY (IMHO) without learning about it.

I get frustrated at the same things Eric notes. Then people like to act I'm stupid or or argue with me. I don't like that, I never say people are wrong unless they are. Replacing parts without proving they are bad is WRONG. That is guessing. Please don't ever suggest that. You may disagree, that is fine. Your still WRONG in my eyes. Prove that part is bad!! Doesn't matter if its a clogged air filter. Take it out and see if the car runs better. If it does, replace the filter!!

Scientific process. Think logically, understand the system, test the system, ID problem part of system, fix system.

I understand not everyone is cut out for diagnostic work. Some peoples minds are better crafted for that than others. That is OK. However, anyone can learn and put forth effort. Guessing and throwing parts requires NO effort. Don't be a parts changer!!

I also understand that not everyone has the top of the line tools or whatever. You don't NEED them per say.

What you do need:
FSM-Your flying blind without it. $ varies.
Multi-meter $7 at Harbor Freight
Test Light $5 at Harbor Freight
Fuel Pressure Tester maybe $30 for a basic GM style one.
Homemade jumper wires and backprobes or T-pins. Less than $10 or so.
Spark Tester $10
Injector Flow Tester Tool $23 on Ebay
You REALLY need to find a buddy or purchase a OBDI or OBDII (1996 only) scan tool of some sort to read engine data. I suppose you could individual test the sensor signal wires at the ECM but that would be a PITA.
Less than $400 if you find a good buy or whatever, it depends.
You can hunt vacuum leaks with a water bottle.
Having some propane around to enrich the mixture never hurts. $ maybe 20.
Vacuum Gauge $20

If you want to get into compression or leakdown tests, $ vary but less likely to need them. They are not that much.
Those assortment of tools will carry you VERY far. Might not be the fastest or most accurate way but will get the job done without guessing.

 

Haven't watched the video yet, but I would encourage anyone and everyone (ladies too...especially, even!) to learn the diagnostic essentials and acquire a basic set of tools. That + simple scientific method + forum help = big savings, because A) You don't have to take it to a shop for every cough & code, and B) When you do have to take it in, you know enough about what's going on to NOT get ripped off by parts swappers!

 

I watched and agree a scanner is the best way. But unless your leads can reach their car we are left with guessing and our past experience to try to help. I thought that is what the forum is for. I try to help not always right but have been lucky enough to help a few. The video makes your point but other than that a total waste of time.

 

I don't think so. There are two ways that more knowledgable members can help less equipped members;
1. Read the symptoms (hopefully they care clear and complete), and then offer guesses, "I've seen this before's", etc.
2. Start down a diagnostic path w/the OP, guiding them to test various parts...ultimately leading to a proven failure, before parts purchase.

The first method is good, and sometimes, correct. But sometimes it results in unneeded parts purchasing, and wasted money/time. Also, the poster doesn't know. Typically people on here post b/c they don't know WTF they're doing (no offense -why should they?) and so when they ask (for example) "Why is my car over heating?" -we've all seen that one a million times. Then the typical guesses start flowing in...well meaning, though they are, and one of them is probably right;
*T-stat
*Radiator debris
*Water pump
*Blown head gasket
*Trapped air
...and on and on. So, with those as responses, what should the original poster do? Which reply should he pick, and pursue? HE don't know! ...that's why he's asking.

The second method, done correctly, should prove a fault, every time, by the end of the process/testing exercise. And what is super cool about taking the OP down that road, is that person can see w/their own eyes, precisely where, and why the failure occurred. That is a good fix, minimal wasted time and money and a true learning experience.

Antfarmer, I think the advice you typically give on this forum is very helpful. I don't see that you should view Rubie's post as criticism.


.

 

I did not take this post as criticism others were digs. But do agree that diagnostic is the best and what we are doing with what info we have. Let me correct my statement the video was a waste of time for me. I never jump anyone for trying to help.

 

Tom, as usual, you get it.

I'm more in favor of #2 you list. #1 leaves WAY too many variables for my taste.

When I find some time I intend to make some basic testing videos using my 93 as a prop. I see a LOT of people doing the tests many of use suggest incorrectly which only magnifies the problems.

I find it VERY frustrating that people have resources but try to find the easy way out, when their isn't one. You either spend time learning and diagnosing or you spend time/money throwing money at an issue.

IMHO, spending time/money on learning and/or on tools is NEVER a waste. You can always sell tools or use them later. Knowledge gained is invaluable. What does one learn from throwing parts and guessing?

Hence I try to help.

 

I hope you plan on staying in the C4 game for a long time. This is the kind of support these cars need going forward, especially the LTX C4's.

 

- with some of these cars over 30 years old, finding garages, service centers, dealerships with tech people that have the basic knowledge on C4's is getting harder and harder to find. most of them are parts changers anyway. even my 85 is considered an antique here in florida. places like this, with the forum tech support definitely helps keeping these modern day classics on the road. I know several C4 that are just sitting and in need of repair, because the owners can't or won't fix things, and most refuse to pay the parts and labor charges.

 

 

You know what is stupid. C4's are pretty simple cars from a engine performance standpoint. The systems are simple and its all basic port fuel injection. Nothing fancy. The systems are NOT exotic and not uncommon. GM used the same stuff on EVERYTHING.

I don't understand why people cannot service C4's. There is NOTING super special about servicing the car. Maybe if you get into the ZF 6 speeds things get a bit gray due to parts availability and crappy aftermarket stuff but again its nothing out of this world.

The real issue is many cars are neglected, not worth crap. Owner doesn't have or won't invest the money to fix. Owner will also not invest time and tools to learn to fix the car.

The low value of the cars hurts them but if you know a few things, have some tools, and a bit of time. You can pick up bargains for next to nothing.

Wait till the C5/C6's get old. Heck, wait till the C7's get old. You have not seen ANYTHING yet in terms of not being able to fix the cars. Those are WAY more complex and $$$$ to fix in the long term.

 

I'm pretty fond of my 93 so good chance of it. However, I keep finding myself looking at C5Zs......

The only issue with that is there are SO many basics one needs to know to do proper electrical diagnostics. If people lack those basics its doing to be difficult. I plan to try and KISS and just show HOW to test and what the results SHOULD be.

I have found from teaching automotive that many (if not most) people get lost in the theory. The problem there is all cars are different but if you understand the theory you can apply THAT to ALL cars equally regardless of make or model.

 

I agree with you. I've always thought that one should at least be able to diagnose their car, even tho I have trouble finding the issue at times. 21 and learning

 

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I’m new to the game and just starting to learn about my vette. So far I have paid to have someone replace my brake line(well worth that one), shocks, plugs, wires, and tires(again,needed a shop for that). My car just took a crap and currently at a shop for of all things for I think is a battery. I just got a OBD2 reader, a manual so it’s time to figure crap out. I found Ruby’s YouTube channel and his list of tools to get so we shall see. Thank to everyone’s help so far from the forum. My issue is my toy turned into my daily when I’m home, which isn’t often.

 

Could you please post his you tube channel?

 

Shawn Bauman. It’s mostly of him racing, but some other good stuff

 

I thought he was going to make some diagnostic tutorial videos for the C4s. That was what he said in his original post in 2016.

 

Hey don't you go ranting and raving here. I have stock in standard motor parts, And if you teach these people how to troubleshoot and diagnose, My stock could be going down!!
think of all those thousands of needlessly changed parts and what it means to my portfolio.
shhhh!

 

I would bet that, even with tutorials on every possible topic, your portfolio would still be safe. In another life, I made over a hundred tutorials on QuickBooks to help people with their issues and almost every phone call I got began with, "I have a quick question"

 

I did. Under Playlist. Man these kinda suck but the content is good. Videography not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...fOSbxBy4ciZrDv

 

Yep, found them. Thank you