hey everyone

Im sure i'll start another great debate on this one but, Are headers really worth it? Ive been a hot rodder forever and most of my builds have been somewhat over the top so headers always seemed to make sense in the big picture. although on a street driven car ive always hated the negatives such as ground clearance, spark plug access, collector and header gasket blowouts etc. my last build was a 496 bbc in a 70 elcamino (full weight) with home ported exhaust manifolds and a 3 inch exhaust and X-pipe. ran 11.90s all day long. How much did I give up by not running headers, don't know or care.

But my question is on my 89 6spd l98 with a miniram, very mildly ported stock heads and a borla cat back, am I going to really notice the 20 or so extra HP with full length headers? I don't plan on doing any more motor work to it Ha Ha, really don't. doing headers on a vette seem to be considerably more money than on other cars, I expect ill be in the $1200 range at least when done. I drive this car a lot in the summer and really don't want all the mentioned negatives for hardly noticeable gains. not a track car, just a driver and knowing that I'll still lose badly to any modern muscle car even with headers.

sorry so long. Any thoughts Again keep in mind if I planned on more mods headers are a no brainer, but if no more mods. are they worth it?

 

Sounds like you answered most of your questions, sort of. On an L98 car they would certainly help, and all the issues you noted above ("ground clearance, spark plug access, collector and header gasket blowouts etc.") have pretty much been mitigated with the advancements in materials and technology. You will pay though for a good set and your $1200 is right in the ball park for a good set. There are cheaper alternatives (OBX, Hooker, Headman) but they could give fitment issues and lead to all the negatives that you hate about LT's. If you are doing nothing else to the car, and you are content with what you have, just leave well enough alone.

I've been debating longtubes on my 94' for some time now, but keep coming back to a lot of the same reasons you mentioned. I don't plan on doing anymore engine work, it will still be slower than most modern cars, and stock is reliable .

 

I picked up a very nice second-hand set of ceramic coated tuned-length Hooker LT's here in the "Parts For Sale" subforum for $500--so keep your eyes peeled there for a bargain. Aside from a slightly flat appearance to the shine, you'd never know they'd been used before. To me, they're worth it, for the sound, look, and to support the mods I'm working on.


If you're not planning on any other bolt-ons, I wouldn't expect a very SOTP-noticeable jump in power...but for what it's worth, I was able to install driver's side from above, and passenger's from below, without having to remove the starter or anything up top. It was "tight," but doable without risking any damage. Only one plug wire requires an insulating boot. YMMV; clearances could differ between L83 & L98.


...Of course, next time I'd pull the battery cable first. I accidentally made a jumper out of the collector end across the starter leads. Loud POP and a shower of sparks--just about shat myself.

 

Stock manifold collector is a joke all 4 tubes are shrunk down to basically a triangle that is maybe 1" x 1" x 1" = .5 sq in per tube. A 1&5/8 head pipe with a .060 wall thickness = 1.767 sq in.

see stock manifold collector pic here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=l98+...aHor5QSmCVM%3A

Collector flange gasket leaks can be eliminated by using ball socket connections.

 

or the best. V clamps. but very expensive.

 

Thanks for the input, of course when i speak to TPIS who made my miniram, and who make a very good header ive hesrd say that i would notice a very big difference with their headers especially because with the miniram i now make power to 6,000rpm. Me personally ive never bolted on headers and said wow. Thinking that just getting rid of the 3 cats and a bigger y pipe will get some results as well.

 

I installed a set of Hedman Elites on my '87 a few years ago. The engine was bored .030 over, a mild cam (GM ZZ3) port-matched intake runners and balanced rotating assembly. The headers, along with true duals and an X-pipe and no cats already on the car, did provide a noticeable power gain. I never ran it on a dyno so I couldn't say what additional HP/TQ I got with the headers but I could easily spin the tires in 2nd gear.

Hedmans and true duals probably won't cost that $1200 unless you have a shop do the header install. I installed mine by myself and trailered the car to get the duals connected to the header collectors. Muffler choice can play a part in the added power. I used DynoMax UltraFlo mufflers but the exhaust was 2-1/4" diameter. Going to 2-1/2" given your mods may help with headers.

Also think about a good tune once you go with headers. Just that alone can result in a decent power gain.

 

Yes, especially on your L98. Come on Patrick, at least do 1.6/1.7 Roller rockers and longtubes

 

From a long time ago so I don't have the details but I did put in a Superram intake with headers and it improved things. However, it did require a tune to make it better.

 

YES YES YES

C4's love long tube headers, they knock around 0.7 sec of a quarter mile on a stock c4. You can only benefit more on a modified c4.
I got some new ceramic coated hedman headers under $500 a couple of years ago, they are great.

Biggest bang for buck on a C4

 

TPIS long tube headers coated with EGR tube $950.00

 

TPIS are the ones I wanted, great quality, not so great customer service.

 

Mine fit well and I didn't need to call

 

Honestly I am surprised that you don't have headers. With the motor work you have done headers would actually do a lot for you, it's seems that you have worked to get more air into the motor but it's still choked on exhaust side. I say for it. Don't forget Exotic Muscle Racing, they also have headers.

 

thanks, I do want to do them, but like i said its a large investment for probably minimal gains. I emailed TPIS 3 days ago about availability and they still havent responded, who is the next best header? really dont want to deal with them anymore.

 

Why don't you call them? I have never had good luck with email for any company really. What do you mean my "minimal gains"? What exactly are you looking for? They will maybe give you 10HP more but with the supporting mods, they will pave the way for more gains later.

 

Like I mentioned before, I think im done with mods, TPIS burned a custom chip for me, based upon cam and their intake, but is was not
based upon datalogging, so Im sure there is more left in combo, car runs well and im going to start datalogging for them so i need to finish up with any last minute mods and exhaust is the last one, I just think $1200 and up is way too much $$$ for 20 or so HP.

So my question has been if I dont plan on any more mods is it worth all that money for 20 or so HP, also does anyone thing that theres much more than that to gain based upon the fact that its not a stock motor, it does have a minram thats good for 6000 rpm, but certainly dont see those revs much driving around town too much

 

I thought headers were about $900? I'm not sure how good that 20HP number is. Maybe more, maybe less, IDK. I do know it won't be as efficient.

Being the sort of person I am, I would do it since I want it to be as efficient as possible and I know that regardless of plans, I will be doing something else later on so it will help.

 

Yes....one of the best upgrades you can do to a L-98

 

In your case I would think it was worth it.If nothing else scour Forums and Ebay for a set of used ones.Does anyone make a set of mid length or shorty headers for an L98 vette?Even they would beat the pants off a set of manifolds AND the stock cat/t pipe setup.
On an LT motor C4 I would say skip headers if you aren't doing a cam or heads/cam.