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It's not my "job" to do anything, much less complain about other supposed "kits". I don't make anything for the C4, and we have absolutely no intention to do so. Thus there is absolutely ZERO competition.
I think that's great that you've got a set of headers that works, good for you. But that's only one set, I've seen hundreds over the years, especially in the honda field. Yes, there are different manufactures in China, and some are good, some are crap. From what I've seen alot of CX's stuff has really been stepped up lately, with much thicker materials. But you can tell the materials based off the construction. These are cheap. They are single tube, mandrel bent, which means they are thin, and cheap.
Like I said, I've got zero skin in the game. I'm not going to sell the OP anything, because we don't offer anything. I'm just dropping in my .02 from years of experience dealing with this crap when customers get duped into a "good deal" then bring it to me for me to install because they couldn't do it themselves. Which isn't an install at all...it's a complete, start from scratch, custom build, with a bunch of random crap.
And my previous statements still hold true. This isn't a "kit", it's a bunch of random crap thrown into a box. This is a box of DIY, a box of RAW MATERIAL, hardly a "kit" at all.
-CK
Originally Posted by anesthes
I've had a number of the chinese headers. I've found them to be actually fairly good thickness and easy to weld. I've modified a few sets.
I realize you are a vendor, so it is your job to complain about cheap competition, but saying they will last 150 miles and break is absolute horseshit.
This is what these headers look like installed:
Like I said earlier, they are too tall for a C4, but otherwise they are 1,000HP capable.
If I recall, super chevy or hot rod ran an article on them a couple of years back and made killer power.
super chevy did a similar article earlier this year with a CX racing (big ebay seller) kit... and the summary of the article was yeah they take a little more to make um work, and the turbos wont last 100K, or likely make the advertised power... but they still make really good power for small price...
ide get a kit meant for your car though.. they will require less modification... cheap ones can be found... also look into vband setup, i dont think this system had that.
Well, yes. You sacrifice something for the low price. You might have to do it again sooner, have to cut and paste to make it work and they might not last. That kinda takes away the meaning of the kit, doesn't it? That makes it just a grab bag of parts that you have to pay someone to make work or spend gobs of time to shoehorn it in because it wasn't thought out properly. As I have always said, good stuff isn't cheap because it doesn't have to be and cheap stuff is not good because it is lacking in either thought, material or longevity.
I would get that too as opposed to a bag of parts that I have to make work somehow or risk having a $1000 "regift" item.
But that's only one set, I've seen hundreds over the years, especially in the honda field. Yes, there are different manufactures in China, and some are good, some are crap.
Like I said, I've got zero skin in the game. I'm not going to sell the OP anything, because we don't offer anything. I'm just dropping in my .02 from years of experience dealing with this crap when customers get duped into a "good deal" then bring it to me for me to install because they couldn't do it themselves. Which isn't an install at all...it's a complete, start from scratch, custom build, with a bunch of random crap.
And my previous statements still hold true. This isn't a "kit", it's a bunch of random crap thrown into a box. This is a box of DIY, a box of RAW MATERIAL, hardly a "kit" at all.
I think it depends. "Made in China" isn't an automatic stamp of poor merchandise. "Made to poor spec" is. There is always a reason it is cheap and it isn't just so you can afford it. It is cheap to get you to part with some money thinking you got a deal till the box is opened. IF it wasn't, we could have it all with good, fast and cheap along with fantasy items.
I'd charge more to undo your "fixes" if it were me. I have to take it apart and try to figure out what the intent of the "kit" was and to try make it work despite what you did. Costs me more.
It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'kit' is. If the—if he—if 'kit' means is built to fit into that vehicle only—that is one thing. If it means there is a lot of fabrication and work and redesigning would be required, that was a completely true statement
I think it depends. "Made in China" isn't an automatic stamp of poor merchandise.
Absolutely! Most people don't realize it but everything they love is made in China. Garrett turbos, Precision, Turbonetics, etc....all china. Doesn't mean poor quality. But there are plenty of poor quality manufactures; course the same holds true for US companies as well. Just because it's made in the US doesn't mean it's good.
Absolutely! Most people don't realize it but everything they love is made in China. Garrett turbos, Precision, Turbonetics, etc....all china. Doesn't mean poor quality. But there are plenty of poor quality manufactures; course the same holds true for US companies as well. Just because it's made in the US doesn't mean it's good.
Absolutely but they need someone to blame. Much easier to blame scumbags like you for selling crap when it is them who asked for the crap to be imported. Only way Trump or Hillary could have fixed it is to mandate that you only sell the approved items and we buy the approved items only. We told the vendor we wanted poor quality stuff and they told the Chinese manufacturers to make to poor spec. The problem lies with us. If we had told the US companies to manufacture to poor spec, we'd have the same thing whether it comes from across the lake or not.
Wow never woulda guessed. Disappointing
Oh well new Delco parts are made there and more, one reason why I am trending towards driving much older cars.
If parts are going to fail all the time may as well cost less and be easier to change out.
See how Trump handles all this has one heck of a mess to unfark without pizzing on too many peoples leg.
as many here have said, the whole "kit" thing is somewhat ridiculous. It is true that they throw a bunch of random Parts together and make it look like a kit. And this is where most of the problems will be. Believe it or not, most of the time the turbos themselves are fine. Not only have we used them and made ridiculous power, I have seen many other people use them and make great power, and also be reliable. Sure they're made in China, but what is forgotten is the race scene in China, Japan, Etc is quite big. And so they're going to want quality Equipment also. So the turbos are fine. There are too many accounts to prove this. Most of the time the turbo failure, or bad review, is due to the idiot who doesn't know how to install and or use the equipment properly. And this is a fact! Now back to the kits, you will eventually spend more money on trying to make your kits work then if you just go out and buy the individual parts as you need them. You will also need to fabricate. This is inevitable. And some Vehicles will need more fabrication than others. Now as far as the C4 Corvette, which in fact I have one and I'm currently building highly custom and modified twin turbo 384 Stroker 91 Coupe, not to mention years of experience that my brother and I have with other vehicles. The C4 is problematic in twin turbo setups. You either want to do low turbos such as the Callaway, which gives room for the turbos but now getting the piping to the front of the car gets complicated. Header high mount turbos will not clear the hood. And then most forward Mount headers put the turbos into the radiator. Not to mention clearances with your accessories, such as AC, Alt, PS, etc, another words any one of these options will need Fabrication in modifications to work. My advice is do your homework on all twin turbo C4 Corvettes, both OEM and aftermarket. This way you can get some ideas of what you're going to have to overcome. Honestly single turbo setups are considerably easier than twin turbos on the C4. You may also want to look into superchargers. The C4 also has an extremely tight engine bay. Now besides all of these issues, also as some others have said, you will need to figure a tune, injectors, fuel pump, & timing, your stock computer will not know what to do with this setup. This is going to be one of the hardest things to overcome. Especially since good "chip burners" are far and few in-between. And many tuners do not want to deal with OBD1 set ups because they cannot see in real-time what is going on. In other words if your engine is having problems it may be too late before they realize and it & adjust the tune. They don't want the responsibility of possibly destroying your engine. Don't get me wrong there are still people who will do it anyways. And that whole mail in and get it a chip sent to you is the biggest load of crap. That may work with some basic upgrades because you don't even realize it's not even working properly. But when you are adding twin turbos, and want to make the power that twin turbos can, you really don't want to just guess at the tune. At this point your best bet would be to go with an aftermarket stand-alone EFI system, but with "power adder" capabilities. Fi tech is the cheapest, but i would step up to the Holley Sniper efi which is a little more, but is an incredible system. Tried & true! The only thing is that it is a throttle body style. Which contrary to popular belief, is not an inferior set up. But I won't get into the pros and cons of both style EFI systems and fuel atomization, etc etc. Both style systems have benefits in their own ways. And both are capable of making ridiculous power. Regardless this now opens another door in set up & cost. In truth the aftermarket EFI would be your best bet. But now you have to come to the realization that it's not going to be cheap and it's also going to take time. But the possibilities are almost endless. In truth, for the average person trying to bump the power up in a C4, I would advise something like a procharger kit. Which most of them are actual kits. They come with all the necessary Hardware, tune included, which is already tried and true, to bolt onto the C4 and make it work. Another upcoming supercharger set for the C4 is by torque storm. It's sort of like the eBay turbo, cheaper in comparison to ProCharger, Etc, but trying to make a name for themselves and so far seems to be pretty damn good for $2,800. This also comes with the complete kit and so far I've only seen good feedback on it. In truth there isn't much out there that's going to give you 500 plus horsepower for only $2,800. And the install can be completed in a weekend. If you want to go the turbocharger route on a C4, a single turbo would be considerably easier to squeeze in to the engine compartment, including the necessary piping. Again you're going to have to figure out the fuel delivery, timing and the tune. Also before you do anything, I advise sitting down and spending as much time learning about the complete subject, from the engine such as or and stroke, to the camshaft, to the valve train, both electrical and mechanical timing, to torque and horsepower and applying them in a specific Power Band, to the power adder whether Turbo, supercharger or nitrous, understanding at least the basics and then the computer or tune part of things. Get familiarized with these things on a deeper level. I'm serious also, all too many people jump out the window with very little understanding of what they're getting into. Spend a couple of weeks getting familiarized, for this will ultimately save you a lot of time and money on mistakes, or changes in plans along the way. Afterwards come up with a few ideas, ask questions, make actual plans and write them down, compare them side-by- side, and then even you start to execute these well thought plans, a monkey wrench will still get thrown in the mix.
I don't know that "ebay" turbos are the most reliable...
They will reliably break
Get that budget big hp out of yourhead it doesnt exist.
Anyone can slap stuff together but if it doesnt last what good is it?
Always time to do it once, never $ to do it over.
If it were me I would get a supercharger kit that will make 8 to 10 lbs of boost and an intercooler. It will fit under the hood with luck make 150 more HP and 175 to 200 more ft lbs. If you have an L98 and can get 350 to 375 hp and 550 ft lbs. it will be a ball to drive and done sooner with some close tunes that already exist.
At this point your best bet would be to go with an aftermarket stand-alone EFI system, but with "power adder" capabilities. Fi tech is the cheapest, but i would step up to the Holley Sniper efi which is a little more, but is an incredible system. Tried & true! The only thing is that it is a throttle body style. Which contrary to popular belief, is not an inferior set up.
I just installed a Holley HP on my 85. Aside from getting things to fit in a cramped car, very simple to install and tune. Much better than the Sniper setup in this application as its a sequential multiport system and keeps the stock (or a Miniram I suppose) intake so you'd have no hood clearance issues. If you get the correct kit the wiring harness simply lays right in place on the motor and plugs in like it was made for it. (Because it was.) It is also capable of running power adders and methanol injection.
I would agree the Holley HP is a somewhat Superior EFI system, which definitely gives you the sequential fuel injection, which also means you could use a mini ram or other such units, and has a few more options. But again plenums in themselves are restrictive. Regardless those systems such as the HP cost a considerable amount more. The end result of sequential efi doesn't necessarily make more power either, it does however affect gas mileage. I'm not saying it's a bad system because it definitely is not. I've seen firsthand both systems make incredible power and are both reliable. It does have the methanol control which is great, but to adapt a methanol injection set up into most systems aren't that hard to do either. Obviously everything all in one place is better, but again I can still do this & the sniper for a decent amount cheaper than most of the complete higher end efi systems. At the end of the day oh, I guess it's about preference and what you want to put into your vehicle.
On a second note, I do have to agree with those who is say about forgetting the words cheap and making power in the same sentence. That never works! Power cost money. Especially when you want to make power and still have reliability. Because the engine me physically be able to make the power but doesn't mean it's going to withstand it. And when you start cutting corners in certain places, those Corners you cut will be its weakest link. And at the end of the day all that money you just spent will be a waste. It makes sense first figure out what you want to do, the power you want to make oh, what you can spend, and then try to execute the plan.
I forgot to add the only thing that the Holley super sniper does not control is methanol. It does however control other power adders such as turbos, superchargers, and nitrous. It can also be a simple system that you don't have to do any self-tuning oh, but you can also plug it into your laptop for a more in-depth tune.
The one thing that I do not like about the sniper, even though I've never seen it have a problem yet, and I have seen them work hard in several different applications, but still, I am not a fan of the fact that the actual brain is in the throttle body itself. I would prefer it to be mounted in a separate location then on top of the engine. Obviously because of the heat directly off the engine. I have personally put functional vents so cool air blows through and vents my engine compartment. I guess ill have to see in a few years how that all plays out.
11-09-2016, 05:57 PM
