Crossfire Adjustable Fuel Pressure question
05-21-2017, 09:15 PM
#21
Thanks Tom. 
I do have some springs in stock and I can just send you one and see if it fixes the issue. Also, normally, but not always the rear spring color is red, but I have seen pink and blue and the comp side is usually green... again, not always. On the rebuild kits, the issue with the ones that do not work correctly (bladder wise) is the top swivel is not the correct shape or size. It will cause pressure issues and we have run across this in the past. The vendor we got the kits from swears they are OK, they are not and proven several times they do not work. The GP Sorensen kit is the only kit we/I ever buy now. Please post up what you find.
I do have some springs in stock and I can just send you one and see if it fixes the issue. Also, normally, but not always the rear spring color is red, but I have seen pink and blue and the comp side is usually green... again, not always. On the rebuild kits, the issue with the ones that do not work correctly (bladder wise) is the top swivel is not the correct shape or size. It will cause pressure issues and we have run across this in the past. The vendor we got the kits from swears they are OK, they are not and proven several times they do not work. The GP Sorensen kit is the only kit we/I ever buy now. Please post up what you find.First, thanks for your posts, they were very helpful. We made big progress yesterday.
On Friday I checked with local Auto Zone Fri after reading your post to check availability of a GP Sorensen 96-629 rebuild kit. They got me one by noon Sat. I was curious about the rear regulator diaphragm which I noticed in my first rebuild kit was slightly different than the original OEM diaphragm.
The new GP had a correct rear regulator diaphragm with a center swivel just like stock and indeed different than the one in the last rebuild kit. I replaced it.
I then checked my rear injector (which was not spraying correctly and only dripping) using 9volts and did not hear the injector clicking open. It had gone bad, may be because I immersed it in cleaning fluid, which everyone warns not to do, but I read too late.
I decided to cannibalize parts from a spare complete crossfire setup purchased at Carlisle years ago. I checked the Rear injector, it cycled fine with 9V so I cleaned it and installed it. I also realized I could try the spring out of the spare rear regulator, and it seemed to an uncalibrated squeeze test in my hand to be not noticeably different than the original one in my regulator, but I swapped it in anyway.
After checking the throttle position sensor voltage and finding it right on the money, we gave it a try. The car fired, the substitute injector sprayed fine, and the pressure adjusted up to 14 PSI, with the tab now about 90-95% to the top of the slot. There is a very small gap remaining, which I took as a good sign.
Looks like the GP kit made the difference, so forum readers may want to keep this in mind when ordering TB rebuild parts
Remaining challenges: (1) I am having some difficulty sealing the injector tower top piece on the front TB. I've tried twice, first it was leaking, and now its just slightly weeping through the gasket seam. Any suggestions appreciated
(2) I assume I'll need to balance the TB's, now and again when I swap in the renegade in a few weeks. Never did this before, so any suggestions about this is also appreciated.
Thanks again for the help. I think I’ve got this under control for the moment, and will move on to the next challenge. I’m sure more posts are coming…
05-21-2017, 09:34 PM
#22
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Nice progress!
I've never had a problem sealing the top of the injector housing...when using new gaskets. I HAVE had problems when reusing gaskets, some of the times. I have made my own gaskets out of gasket material and a ball peen hammer, and that worked good too. Takes patience to make 'em though.
There are a few ways to balance TB's. The manual calls for a water manometer hooked to the ported vacuum ports on the TB's. Adjust until you have the same readings.
Another way is to use a feeler gauge or tiny drill bit between the blade edge and bore of one TB, then set the other to match that same spacing. That works pretty good too.
The way I always did it (since I bored my TB's out to the point where the ported vacuum slot was eliminated) was similar to the way that you sinc carbs on a snowmobile (or any slide carb engine). I would back off the throttle stop screw until the first throttle blade became "bottomed" or fully closed in it's bore. I'd then adjust the balance screw until the other throttle plate just barely bottomed/closed in it's bore, too. Now I know both throttle plates are in relatively the same position in their bores -fully closed. At that point, I screw the throttle stop screw back in to hold the throttles open for proper idle, and I'm done.
I've never had a problem sealing the top of the injector housing...when using new gaskets. I HAVE had problems when reusing gaskets, some of the times. I have made my own gaskets out of gasket material and a ball peen hammer, and that worked good too. Takes patience to make 'em though.
There are a few ways to balance TB's. The manual calls for a water manometer hooked to the ported vacuum ports on the TB's. Adjust until you have the same readings.
Another way is to use a feeler gauge or tiny drill bit between the blade edge and bore of one TB, then set the other to match that same spacing. That works pretty good too.
The way I always did it (since I bored my TB's out to the point where the ported vacuum slot was eliminated) was similar to the way that you sinc carbs on a snowmobile (or any slide carb engine). I would back off the throttle stop screw until the first throttle blade became "bottomed" or fully closed in it's bore. I'd then adjust the balance screw until the other throttle plate just barely bottomed/closed in it's bore, too. Now I know both throttle plates are in relatively the same position in their bores -fully closed. At that point, I screw the throttle stop screw back in to hold the throttles open for proper idle, and I'm done.
The following users liked this post:
garyc4 (05-22-2017)
05-22-2017, 12:15 PM
#23
Bad injector...
Buccaneer/Tom/All,
First, thanks for your posts, they were very helpful. We made big progress yesterday.
On Friday I checked with local Auto Zone Fri after reading your post to check availability of a GP Sorensen 96-629 rebuild kit. They got me one by noon Sat. I was curious about the rear regulator diaphragm which I noticed in my first rebuild kit was slightly different than the original OEM diaphragm.
The new GP had a correct rear regulator diaphragm with a center swivel just like stock and indeed different than the one in the last rebuild kit. I replaced it.
I then checked my rear injector (which was not spraying correctly and only dripping) using 9volts and did not hear the injector clicking open. It had gone bad, may be because I immersed it in cleaning fluid, which everyone warns not to do, but I read too late.
I decided to cannibalize parts from a spare complete crossfire setup purchased at Carlisle years ago. I checked the Rear injector, it cycled fine with 9V so I cleaned it and installed it. I also realized I could try the spring out of the spare rear regulator, and it seemed to an uncalibrated squeeze test in my hand to be not noticeably different than the original one in my regulator, but I swapped it in anyway.
After checking the throttle position sensor voltage and finding it right on the money, we gave it a try. The car fired, the substitute injector sprayed fine, and the pressure adjusted up to 14 PSI, with the tab now about 90-95% to the top of the slot. There is a very small gap remaining, which I took as a good sign.
Looks like the GP kit made the difference, so forum readers may want to keep this in mind when ordering TB rebuild parts
Remaining challenges: (1) I am having some difficulty sealing the injector tower top piece on the front TB. I've tried twice, first it was leaking, and now its just slightly weeping through the gasket seam. Any suggestions appreciated
(2) I assume I'll need to balance the TB's, now and again when I swap in the renegade in a few weeks. Never did this before, so any suggestions about this is also appreciated.
Thanks again for the help. I think I’ve got this under control for the moment, and will move on to the next challenge. I’m sure more posts are coming…
First, thanks for your posts, they were very helpful. We made big progress yesterday.
On Friday I checked with local Auto Zone Fri after reading your post to check availability of a GP Sorensen 96-629 rebuild kit. They got me one by noon Sat. I was curious about the rear regulator diaphragm which I noticed in my first rebuild kit was slightly different than the original OEM diaphragm.
The new GP had a correct rear regulator diaphragm with a center swivel just like stock and indeed different than the one in the last rebuild kit. I replaced it.
I then checked my rear injector (which was not spraying correctly and only dripping) using 9volts and did not hear the injector clicking open. It had gone bad, may be because I immersed it in cleaning fluid, which everyone warns not to do, but I read too late.
I decided to cannibalize parts from a spare complete crossfire setup purchased at Carlisle years ago. I checked the Rear injector, it cycled fine with 9V so I cleaned it and installed it. I also realized I could try the spring out of the spare rear regulator, and it seemed to an uncalibrated squeeze test in my hand to be not noticeably different than the original one in my regulator, but I swapped it in anyway.
After checking the throttle position sensor voltage and finding it right on the money, we gave it a try. The car fired, the substitute injector sprayed fine, and the pressure adjusted up to 14 PSI, with the tab now about 90-95% to the top of the slot. There is a very small gap remaining, which I took as a good sign.
Looks like the GP kit made the difference, so forum readers may want to keep this in mind when ordering TB rebuild parts
Remaining challenges: (1) I am having some difficulty sealing the injector tower top piece on the front TB. I've tried twice, first it was leaking, and now its just slightly weeping through the gasket seam. Any suggestions appreciated
(2) I assume I'll need to balance the TB's, now and again when I swap in the renegade in a few weeks. Never did this before, so any suggestions about this is also appreciated.
Thanks again for the help. I think I’ve got this under control for the moment, and will move on to the next challenge. I’m sure more posts are coming…
05-25-2017, 10:27 PM
#25
Yes, lots of progress. Probably enough to bore you to tears! At this point the engine is running great. Fuel pressure is stable, Ive tweaked the adjustment down to 13 PSI. I'm using what I believe to be a stock spring. The front TB is still very slightly weeping fuel along the gasket line on the top of the injector tower.
Not enough to call a leak, but I can see the gasket is moist when running and if I wipe my finger on it I can smell gas. I've got more gaskets on order. When they get here I'll remove the top TB piece again, make sure the injector is properly seated, replace the front TB bladder with the GP Sorensen piece to be consistent with the rear bladder I talked about in my last post, and the seal it up (hopefully).
The car has made great progress since pulling it out of storage a couple of months ago (hadn't run is 7-8 yrs) and beginning to revive it. We've been methodically going through the car and bringing systems up to date. We've gone through the brake system completely, changing out the lines at each corner, flushing the fluid, cutting and bead blasting the rotors, inspecting the pads and calipers, and putting it back together. Fuel system has had similar treatment. All rubber lines replaced on supply and return, flushed with carb cleaner, new filter, new sending unit, new 85 fuel pump, rebuilt TB's, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pressure gauge. New battery, changed rear diff fluid, flushed and changed trans fluid. Flushed the cooling system.
Pressure tested the radiator and trans cooling loop (NOTE: this was done because when I first changed the trans fluid, it was slightly milky, indicating some water or coolant in the trans. The radiator passed, so looks like the trans fluid just had some accumulated condensation. We flushed the fluid completely, and will keep an eye on it)
Flushed the power steering system, new cat-back exhaust, punched out cat, New serpentine belt,plugs/wires/cap/rotor, complete engine hose kit, new bilsteins going on this weekend, along with a NYU code rear spring which will give the car an 85-87 Z51 suspension. At that point we'll start driving it around and see what shakes loose. Then the renegade goes on. All going well thus far. Interior looms next. My son is getting his first real hands on experience with "old cars" and its fun working the project this way. Also getting a lot of help from a friend whos putting a bunch of time and work into the car for the fun of it, which is great. Nice project, and rewarding as it was originally purchased new by my mom, with me owning since 89, and of course, next owner will be one of my kids, but not till after I enjoy it!
Not enough to call a leak, but I can see the gasket is moist when running and if I wipe my finger on it I can smell gas. I've got more gaskets on order. When they get here I'll remove the top TB piece again, make sure the injector is properly seated, replace the front TB bladder with the GP Sorensen piece to be consistent with the rear bladder I talked about in my last post, and the seal it up (hopefully).
The car has made great progress since pulling it out of storage a couple of months ago (hadn't run is 7-8 yrs) and beginning to revive it. We've been methodically going through the car and bringing systems up to date. We've gone through the brake system completely, changing out the lines at each corner, flushing the fluid, cutting and bead blasting the rotors, inspecting the pads and calipers, and putting it back together. Fuel system has had similar treatment. All rubber lines replaced on supply and return, flushed with carb cleaner, new filter, new sending unit, new 85 fuel pump, rebuilt TB's, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pressure gauge. New battery, changed rear diff fluid, flushed and changed trans fluid. Flushed the cooling system.
Pressure tested the radiator and trans cooling loop (NOTE: this was done because when I first changed the trans fluid, it was slightly milky, indicating some water or coolant in the trans. The radiator passed, so looks like the trans fluid just had some accumulated condensation. We flushed the fluid completely, and will keep an eye on it)
Flushed the power steering system, new cat-back exhaust, punched out cat, New serpentine belt,plugs/wires/cap/rotor, complete engine hose kit, new bilsteins going on this weekend, along with a NYU code rear spring which will give the car an 85-87 Z51 suspension. At that point we'll start driving it around and see what shakes loose. Then the renegade goes on. All going well thus far. Interior looms next. My son is getting his first real hands on experience with "old cars" and its fun working the project this way. Also getting a lot of help from a friend whos putting a bunch of time and work into the car for the fun of it, which is great. Nice project, and rewarding as it was originally purchased new by my mom, with me owning since 89, and of course, next owner will be one of my kids, but not till after I enjoy it!
Last edited by garyc4; 05-25-2017 at 11:01 PM.
05-25-2017, 11:29 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
Yes, lots of progress. Probably enough to bore you to tears! At this point the engine is running great. Fuel pressure is stable, Ive tweaked the adjustment down to 13 PSI. I'm using what I believe to be a stock spring. The front TB is still very slightly weeping fuel along the gasket line on the top of the injector tower.
Not enough to call a leak, but I can see the gasket is moist when running and if I wipe my finger on it I can smell gas. I've got more gaskets on order. When they get here I'll remove the top TB piece again, make sure the injector is properly seated, replace the front TB bladder with the GP Sorensen piece to be consistent with the rear bladder I talked about in my last post, and the seal it up (hopefully).
The car has made great progress since pulling it out of storage a couple of months ago (hadn't run is 7-8 yrs) and beginning to revive it. We've been methodically going through the car and bringing systems up to date. We've gone through the brake system completely, changing out the lines at each corner, flushing the fluid, cutting and bead blasting the rotors, inspecting the pads and calipers, and putting it back together. Fuel system has had similar treatment. All rubber lines replaced on supply and return, flushed with carb cleaner, new filter, new sending unit, new 85 fuel pump, rebuilt TB's, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pressure gauge. New battery, changed rear diff fluid, flushed and changed trans fluid. Flushed the cooling system.
Pressure tested the radiator and trans cooling loop (NOTE: this was done because when I first changed the trans fluid, it was slightly milky, indicating some water or coolant in the trans. The radiator passed, so looks like the trans fluid just had some accumulated condensation. We flushed the fluid completely, and will keep an eye on it)
Flushed the power steering system, new cat-back exhaust, punched out cat, New serpentine belt,plugs/wires/cap/rotor, complete engine hose kit, new bilsteins going on this weekend, along with a NYU code rear spring which will give the car an 85-87 Z51 suspension. At that point we'll start driving it around and see what shakes loose. Then the renegade goes on. All going well thus far. Interior looms next. My son is getting his first real hands on experience with "old cars" and its fun working the project this way. Also getting a lot of help from a friend whos putting a bunch of time and work into the car for the fun of it, which is great. Nice project, and rewarding as it was originally purchased new by my mom, with me owning since 89, and of course, next owner will be one of my kids, but not till after I enjoy it!
Not enough to call a leak, but I can see the gasket is moist when running and if I wipe my finger on it I can smell gas. I've got more gaskets on order. When they get here I'll remove the top TB piece again, make sure the injector is properly seated, replace the front TB bladder with the GP Sorensen piece to be consistent with the rear bladder I talked about in my last post, and the seal it up (hopefully).
The car has made great progress since pulling it out of storage a couple of months ago (hadn't run is 7-8 yrs) and beginning to revive it. We've been methodically going through the car and bringing systems up to date. We've gone through the brake system completely, changing out the lines at each corner, flushing the fluid, cutting and bead blasting the rotors, inspecting the pads and calipers, and putting it back together. Fuel system has had similar treatment. All rubber lines replaced on supply and return, flushed with carb cleaner, new filter, new sending unit, new 85 fuel pump, rebuilt TB's, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pressure gauge. New battery, changed rear diff fluid, flushed and changed trans fluid. Flushed the cooling system.
Pressure tested the radiator and trans cooling loop (NOTE: this was done because when I first changed the trans fluid, it was slightly milky, indicating some water or coolant in the trans. The radiator passed, so looks like the trans fluid just had some accumulated condensation. We flushed the fluid completely, and will keep an eye on it)
Flushed the power steering system, new cat-back exhaust, punched out cat, New serpentine belt,plugs/wires/cap/rotor, complete engine hose kit, new bilsteins going on this weekend, along with a NYU code rear spring which will give the car an 85-87 Z51 suspension. At that point we'll start driving it around and see what shakes loose. Then the renegade goes on. All going well thus far. Interior looms next. My son is getting his first real hands on experience with "old cars" and its fun working the project this way. Also getting a lot of help from a friend whos putting a bunch of time and work into the car for the fun of it, which is great. Nice project, and rewarding as it was originally purchased new by my mom, with me owning since 89, and of course, next owner will be one of my kids, but not till after I enjoy it!
Nice progress! Looks like you are getting closer and will be driving it soon, awesome. Let us know how that all goes. Have fun. 
The following users liked this post:
garyc4 (05-25-2017)