Bfenty

I'm curious if anyone has experience using this stuff-good? Recommended? Or any horror stories? I've got an unmodified R-12 system on my Vette now and I'd rather keep it that way. Running R-12a seems like a good solution, and poking around online I've read generally good reviews.

Also, how much of it do I need to buy? I'm going to assume the system is probably pretty empty. I don't think there are any major leaks, just 30 years worth of small ones-that said, I was also thinking of using RedTek's Stop Leak stuff, just to prep.

While I'm at it, anything else I'm missing? I've added R-134a to my daily driver on a few occasions, but never tried to charge a system from presumed empty. Advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

aklim

Is there any reason you can't use R12 and not this mixture? IDK if it is illegal in your area or just hard to find.

Bfenty

It's both. Something like a $10K fine.

R-12a is actually sold by a company headquartered about 2 hours from me. So I can get it pretty cheap. Probably under $50 for everything I'd need to charge the system from scratch. That beats $400 plus risking a fine by a lot.

Benny42

Flammable refrigerants in mobile a/c applications are usually subject to fines. R12a is propane & isobutane. It isn't the "rolling bomb" some will wail about but it is a flammable refrigerant. Do some research, R134a gives up very little capacity (if any) in automotive use.

aklim

I meant that I would find some shop with R12 to charge it instead of the mixture

abc99

lets see...flammable refrigerant, a small leak in the evaporator, leaks thru the air vents, you light a cigarette...

Dt86

Why is everyone so against Darwinism these days?

mickey5

R12 is still available on ebay.

aklim

What is the legality of the item? Can I legally buy and install it or must it be installed by a licensed place or how does it work? I never understood what it is. I can't buy it since I do not have a license but can I possess it? I'm curious.

VikingTrad3r

Im in Canada where this is totally legal.

My research on the subject showed that the danger was far less dangerous than the massive tank of fuel in my backend or the gas fumes in the evap cannister. My conclusion that there was zero reason not to use it.

I used it in my 1985. worked perfectly.

I used it in my 1987. Worked perfectly.

I used it in my 2006 tacoma which i did a full air compressor/condensor rnr on and fefilled it from scratch with this stuff. Worked awesome. The stuff works. DIY. most people who beatched and moaned were......wait for it.....in the ac business.

There are many people who call the car a "rolling bomb" if you use this. and i just have to laugh. Are you like Mo and do you have an electric C4?

aklim

Yes and no. First off, your car was designed to be safe with the gas tank and evap canister. Your car was NOT designed around this concoction. More important is the fact that the issue is not that the risk is greater here or there. The thing is that the COMBINED risk is greater with the fuel tank and the concoction if we are talking about risk.

Further to that, if you can get R12 legally and it doesn't cost way more, what is the gain of saving a couple bucks considering the fact that your AC system is designed AROUND the R12 gas and not this unknown?

VikingTrad3r

I actually agree with you yes. If you can get r12 and it's pretty much the same price in fact even if it's within 50% of the same price I would go with r12.

where I live in Canada it seems r 12 is no longer allowed. At least the AC shops that I called said it was not allowed and that I had to convert my system to r134 and they quoted me $650. so you can see why i like the $25 can of duracool that works just fine (for me).

so to be fair, I guess my review was not straight up, I would've gone r 12 if I had the option to do it inexpensively or at least reasonably expensively.

for what it's worth, the risks associated with this grab and go alternative seem negligable as pretty much everybody I know of uses the stuff up here.

cheers.

aklim

I'm not certain about Canada so if your federal govt says "FAWK NO", well, such is life. What exactly do they do for $650? IDK if Duracool requires cleaning out the compressor and system like the R134A does but assuming you can get away with $50, you are correct that the difference is vast enough to justify it. As to using that stuff, some of our local shops have you sign a waiver that if their machine fawks up because you put strange stuff and didn't tell them, you pay. So if you do it at home, you might not be able to get it serviced anywhere. I know that one of the shops will turn you away if you say you have anything but R12 or R134A. They claim they have a detector to check but IDK if it is true. They do not want you using any R134A with sealants from Wal*Mart or Autozone for the same reason so for me, as you say, since I can use R12 or R134A, the risk vs reward equation doesn't work out.

Last I changed a system, we took apart all the fittings and used new rubber O-rings that were R134A compliant, cleaned it out with alcohol and blew the lines before sealing it with the new O-rings that were oiled in the R134A oil. Also receiver dryer was changed. So maybe that is what the $650 was about? IDK.

Patsgarage

Real R-12 is very expensive, if you can even find it. I would not use a "drop in" replacement for R-12, either have your system converted to 134a, or find someone who has some R-12 to charge your car. The replacements are not as dangerous as they are made out to be, but they are also not ideal. For a R-12 to 134a conversion to be done correctly is very expensive, the entire system must be evacuated, all the seals changed along with the dryer/receiver. You will loose some efficiency with a conversion as well. If you do decide to go the R-12 route, make sure any leaks are fixed before you charge the system, you can use nitrogen to check if the system is tight, and UV dye as a tracer to locate any leaks.

aklim

For the conversion, if the compressor is toast, you'd have to replace that. After you are done taking it out, change the O-rings and flush. Replace compressor and receiver/dryer last. Bring it to a shop to pull a vacuum on it and charge with the gas of your choice be it R134A or R12. When I do it again, I will replace the receiver/dryer and condenser with a 96 C4 one which is set up for R134A and have them test and recharge it. My compressor is getting noisy so I am getting ready for that job.

Problem with using drop in replacements is that shops might be leery of sucking strange gases out. I can't go to my buddies and ask them to borrow the shop machine since it is a side job the shop doesn't profit from and risk their job if the machine screws up. I really wouldn't go past R134A or R12. I can mitigate the cost by doing the labor but NFW would I buy the machine which can draw a vacuum or have to build one that will sit in the garage and occupy another space for years to come.