Okay, I'm getting more serious about the procharger addition but I need a little help from you pros.
I'm currently running 383 stroked ci., 10.2 .1 compression with forged Keith Black pistons, Felpro wire ring head gaskets, #26 injectors, aluminum AFR heads, AFPR, etc. (see sig) As I understand it, 10.2 compression will only allow about 8 psi on pump gas, is this correct? Would I be better off to pull the motor down and drop the compression with dished pistons thereby allowing for more boost, or would 8 psi make the difference I'm looking for?

I currently dyno at 353 rwhp, and would like 500. Would 8 psi with my setup get me the extra 150 hp? I really don't want to pull the engine if I don't have to!

Also, all the pics I've seen of the Prochargers has the intake directly above the left side headers. This can't be good for making power...can it?


[Modified by Ezgoin721, 9:43 PM 9/29/2002]

 

I really don't like to try supercharging on anything above 10:1 CR, but you might do 5-6psi, maybe 8psi intercooled with really good tuning and lots of timing retard to keep it out of detonation.

With your stated goals, I think I'd drop the compression to around 9.0 - 9.2 then run 12-14psi boost with an intercooler. My 383 does 433 rwhp / 505 rwtq at 8psi with long runner TPI. A better flowing intake and the higher boost would definitely push you over 500 rwhp.

Yes the air intake is above the headers and is hot and less dense. ATI says it doesn't matter because the blower will suck it in and compress it (and make it hot anyway). An intercooler is the best solution. I've seen a couple remote air intakes plumbed with like aluminum dryer vent hose; and I'm kind of working on an "air box" idea using thermo-tec panels to isolate the blower intake from the headers and pull fresh air from the wheel well.

 

I agree, drop the compression and crank up the boost.

Also, my Carroll system pulls the air in from the area right above the header. They claim the same thing and intercooling is the way to go (they use a water injection system). I have also heard that a fresh air intake is a waste, you probably will not see any significant gains. Just some food for thought.

 

The LT1 uses a different compressor setup and air intake location than the L98. I've thought about this too and the only thing I can think of is either moving the battery and putting the air filter there, or having the air filter inlet make a 180* turn, go forward, and snake down near the headlight assembly or where the original air filter is.

good luck and nice ride!

 

To figure out th Hp you take (HP/14.7psi sea level) x (14.7 + Boost psi)=your predicted HP. So 355rwhp with 8psi intercooled boost would be almost 550hp considering you have good flow in and out. IT would probably be less than than that but you get the point. :yesnod: Another thing you could do is run 8psi now then later on get dish type pistons that are forged to lower the c/r to about 8.5 then run as much boost as your tranny can hold. :yesnod:

 

Centrifugal compressors are extremely sensitive to inlet restrictions; if you put any significant length of tube or bends in front of it you will be worse off than just breathing the hot air! If you do it, keep it short 18" and no more than 90* total bends.

 

I use header wrap on mine but with both fans switched on the air flow through the engine compartment is going out the bottom and pushing the heat away from the blower intake. Most of the heat that is sucked in comes from the radiator. If you use intercooler you can do the 8lb. boost but you will not make 500 rwhp Also with the 2 core intercooler that ATI makes for the corvette it will Max. out at 500hp that will be about 400 at the rear wheels. If you put on bigger blower or more boost you won't see much improvment because of the intercooler. To make the 500 rwhp you will need to get a custom made intercooler or use NOS. I'm basing this on experience and what I have seen on the dyno not some screwy formula. Those formulas often do not agree with real results. Bottom line is run it like it is with 8lb boost and be happy with it or change pistons get bigger blower and large custom made spearco and make your goal of 500 or more rwhp. Good Luck with your decision. :seeya

 

I know of one car using the ATI intercooler, 12lbs of boost, and the Vortech blower and he made 540+ rear wheel horsepower on the dyno. The intercooler is a restriction for the setup, but I don't see any special limitation in horsepower that the intercooler imposes. I do know he was running 14psi of boost and made the same horsepower and the intercooler was balmed for this restriction as well. I would say the intercooler has a boost limitation that it can handle, but not a horsepower limitation.

 

Well maybe the Intercooler is not as efficent. I had an Idea if you use intercoolers similar to the ones on the Callaway twin turbo set-up. Then on top of the intercoolers you use small electrical fans that are feed from hood louvers or scoops that feed it cold air. This accelerates cold air over the intercooler instead of making the intercooler a heat soak.Also why do so many people put their intercoolers in front of the radiator? This makes no sense becasue the radiator blows hot air off of it and then would go to the radiator. Why would you want your intercooler to catch more heat. I think my way would work much better. :smash:

 

Black Bart told you exactly the way it is!!!! Believe him. If your really serious, don't tear the engine apart but get a current late model engine (Z06). Add a set of headers , a Pro Charger, tune it and your already at 575 rwhp. Just my .02

 

If you call ATI and talk to one of the engineers they will tell you that the 2core is Maxed out at around 500 flywheel hp. If your friend had 540 rwhp then he would have been makin 650 at the flywheel. With 12 lbs of boost I would like to see that. If you go back and read the original post he said he wanted to make 500 rwhp with 8lbs. of boost I don't believe the 12lbs and you dam sure won't make it with 8lb.

 

I was wondering what intercooler you are using to get your 1038 HP?

 

custom spearco. Ever hear of the the big blue bottle

 

Bart,

I mean no disrespect as I know you know the blower setups.

The car that did the 540 rwhp using the ATI intercooler is here...

It is Darren's old Yellow Beast that is now owned by a Forum member in Louisiana. I would have to do some searching through some old files or ask him for a dyno sheet. The 12psi of boost is what was realized at the intake.

I believe it is similar to the setup that Shalin's old blower car had that Chris @ Speed Demon now owns and I thought it was over 500 rear wheel as well.

Chris


[Modified by Vette92, 10:08 AM 10/11/2002]

 

I had two different pullies on my Yellow Beast an 18 psi and a 12 psi pulley on the vortech blower. Once the boost went through the ATI intercooler the 18 psi would give between 11-12 psi at the intake and the 12 psi pulley would give around 8 psi at the intake. The car made over 560 rwhp with the 18 psi pulley and around 540 with the 12, all of this was on pump gas. This was a 96 LT4 with 9.5 comp. and a LT4 hotcam. With a better cam I know the car can do closer to 600 rwhp. The shop that did the work for me has made close to 12 of these cars with the same set-ups, have seen 630 with a better cam.

 

In a combo that was very similar to Shalin's, I made just shy of 530 RWHP at 11 psi. I upped the cubes, changed intakes, heads, much larger cam, etc and made 634 RWHP at 6100 with 10 psi boost. I was concerned with the factory computer's ability to handle the fuel requirements. I have since purchased the FelPro unit and I have been told I should see an additional 50-70 RWHP. I was somewhat lean on the top and fat on the bottom, with a slight lean dip between 3400-4200 RPM with the factory computer (reprogrammed chip of course). This was all running through the ATI 2 core unit. ATI says with the pulley and the RPM I turn, the unit should be at like 26 psi boost on a stock motor.

I do recognize that the ATI 2-core is a limiting factor, so the new project received a much larger Spearco unit. This was also required for the different size inlet and outlet required. The Spearco is supposed to be good to like 2000 cfm with pressure drop less than 2 psi. For what I am pushing 1600-1700 cfm, the pressure drop is close to 1 psi. This compares to a calculated value of 5.8 lbs pressure drop through the factory ATI 2-core.

By the way, that 530 RWHP ran very low 11's at just slightly less than 130 MPH. The car should have been in the 10's, but 60' were always ugly. It is now solidly in the 10's with the 630+ RWHP combo.

Just goes to show, don't believe everything that ATI says with regard to max HP through the 2 core intercooler. I cannot speak for the 2 baby cores, made for the 91 and newer vettes.

Best of Luck,
Aaron

 

quote:
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custom spearco. Ever hear of the the big blue bottle
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Bart,

How about some details?

What size intercooler core are you using and where is it mounted?

What NOS system are you using and what size jets?

What did you do to the mini ram rails and the rest of the fuel system to handle the 1038HP?

Where and what type of dyno was used (brand and style)?


_______

1990 with 96' body kit, 383 CID, Callis crank, Oliver Billet rods, JE pistons, AFR 220 heads, ProCharger D1-X, F.A.S.T. fuel injection, 83# injectors, Weldon fuel system, liquid/air intercooler, 2" headers, 3 1/2" exhaust, Turbo 400 with Gear Vendors, Dana 44, carbon fiber half shafts. Programming DFI since 1988, supercharged since 1992

 

Never mind about those pics.

Art, If you go to the link in Black Barts sig you can see some pics of his engine.




[Modified by bill mcdonald, 3:49 PM 10/15/2002]

 

The pictures don't answer any of the questions.

Bill if you can answer any of these questions by looking at the pictures please feel free to share your observations.