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Actually I was, 'cause mine burst inside the tank, not under the car or near anything hot. It's a simple task especially compared to all the rest you're doing; just a few short sections connecting hard lines. I KNOW you don't want a gasoline fire!
Nope definitely dont want a fire! What lines did you connect?
Hey guys, update for ya
Finished pulling the rest of the 84 engine harness out
This black electric grease sure is sticky and nasty stuff! Would ya'll recommend cleaning it all out and putting new dielectric grease in there instead?
Took me 30 min before i realized there was a bolt holding this in
Not a very good pic but the back side of the engine sure is clean looking without the wiring.
#5 cylinder
#3 cylinder
#1 cylinder
I also did some more test fits with the pro flo and some stacked gaskets (.120"). As you can tell from the photos of the intake port/head port combo they line up pretty well darn well! Although if look at cylinder number #1 and #5 on the right side it looks like there are 2 humps as it flows down the ports in comparison to #3. #3 looks like it makes a nice straight line all the way down. If I wanted to I could do some porting to make it flow better but id rather not do the "while I'm in there..." as it would make this proses even longer. Every other port is also like this, not just #1 and #5 btw. So now with the port floors lining up much better I needed to find out how much higher the head port was in comparison to the pro flo port. After some measurement I figure out that the head port is .29" higher than the pro flo port, which brings the head port exactly to the top of the intake manifold flange. With a little hang over of the intake gasket it seems like it would seal up. So its either spend 900 for new heads or 25 on gaskets and hope it seals. I think I will just buy the gaskets and try it out. If it leaks then ill buy heads, if it doesn't than wonderful! What do you guys think? I know that the .29" would hurt performance but how much is the true question.
As far as the wiring harness I am still trying to decide what I want to do. If I use 86 I will have to remove about 10 different connectors, change 2 connectors near ECM, repin harness, and cut fire wall for different style mounting. If I use 84 harness I will have to change ECM connectors to 86 style which means lots of repining and add fuel injector wires. Seems easier to me to use 84 harness but I am not sure if there is some hidden wiring problem with this.
Although if look at cylinder number #1 and #5 on the right side it looks like there are 2 humps as it flows down the ports. If I wanted to I could do some porting to make it flow better. Every other port is also like this, not just #1 and #5 btw.
So its either spend 900 for new heads or 25 on gaskets and hope it seals. I think I will just buy the gaskets and try it out. If it leaks then ill buy heads, if it doesn't than wonderful! What do you guys think? I know that the .29" would hurt performance but how much is the true question.
I think the hump you're looking at is the push rod...you don't want to port into that much, plus, tests have show that hump to have a negligible effect on flow.
I think you should do the gaskets. I did that years ago on a vortex truck long block (Vortec ports are raised like yours are) with a ported CFI intake on it. Stacking two gaskets on each side made it work, no leaks and it ran strong too (for what it was). I would definitely give the stacked gaskets a try.
Nope definitely dont want a fire! What lines did you connect?
Return lines are under little pressure, so it's just the feed lines, starting at the fuel pump (in the tank) and a couple more, like under the car, from there to the fuel rail.
Lucky me; the burst line was internal to the tank, from the pump to the fuel pump/sender mount, and the newly smogged hot rod wouldn't start in the DMV lot.
BTW, kudos for your posting activity.
Last edited by whalepirot; 07-26-2017 at 11:14 AM.
I think the hump you're looking at is the push rod...you don't want to port into that much, plus, tests have show that hump to have a negligible effect on flow.
I think you should do the gaskets. I did that years ago on a vortex truck long block (Vortec ports are raised like yours are) with a ported CFI intake on it. Stacking two gaskets on each side made it work, no leaks and it ran strong too (for what it was). I would definitely give the stacked gaskets a try.
I am referring to right side of the port on #1 and #5 plus every other port. It just looks like the right side has a wave as it goes down, like in the shape of a slightly flattened 3. I will test to see if it actually isnt straight today or its just an optical illusion. I do agree that humps would have little effect on air flow, but it bugs me its not straight.
Thanks for your input! I will have to order them soo!
Return lines are under little pressure, so it's just the feed lines, starting at the fuel pump (in the tank) and a couple more, like under the car, from there to the fuel rail.
BTW, kudos for your posting activity.
Okk! Thank you for the tip! Thanks again, I like to help one others if I can!
Wish I had seen this thread sooner. There was no need to replace your harness if using EBL/Flash. I did this upgrade a few years ago. The easiest way to have done it was getting the HAM board installed on the EBL ECM. Having the multi port upgrade done on the ECM as well. You can easily use the 84's existing harness. Once the AIR system is removed it leaves you two additional wires in the harness that aren't used. Those can then be used for the IAT, Make one pin change at the ecm and your done. Wire up for the additional injectors using the existing crossfire's injector and wiring. Very easy. Now your not limited to what type of intake you want to use. Miniram,Superam,HSR,Proflo... whatever you want.
The swap for the most part is pretty easy, hardest part is learning how to tune. Good luck with your swap.
Today the car runs stronger than ever, I've relocated the power steering pump fluid reservoir, AC is completely new and works perfectly as well as a complete dyno tune.
Yeah I don't think I have done an update yet with new info but I will not be using the 86 harness. I will be using 84 harness. I have bought new injector connectors for it and will be wiring them in. I was thinking about replacing the 84 injector wires all together and using new wires but it doesn't really matter either way, would just be more work replacing them entirely. Dynamicefi doesn't sell the HAM board any more but I email bob and he said that I could just swap the connectors. He sent me a pin swapping diagram to change 84 over to 86 style so that is what I will be doing.
Already got the multi port mod done!
I will be wiring in an IAT sensor but I'm not sure where it needs to go in the connector but if I can figure out where it is on the 86 harness I will just copy it.
Hey all, so last night I was checking out my 86 harness while doing a little work to my 84 harness and had a question about the way the fuel injectors are wired. With all the power wires grouped together and ground wires grouped together for each bank it would seem like the injectors would fire more times than needed. Like 4 times more than needed. I was thinking that each would have their own individual ground to allow them to fire individually but that's not the case I guess.
Can any one explain why its like this?
Slight mismatch or wave wont hurt you on power one bit just keeps you awake at night wondering about it.
Mr Gasket has all kinds of different thicknesses to play with, can slot your bolt holes and shift stuff around.
Post your results, good to see guys still messing with these cars. Misery loves company
Slight mismatch or wave wont hurt you on power one bit just keeps you awake at night wondering about it.
Mr Gasket has all kinds of different thicknesses to play with, can slot your bolt holes and shift stuff around.
Post your results, good to see guys still messing with these cars. Misery loves company
Haha yeahh it will bug me but wont hurt nothing. Hmm I might check them out, the .120 worked well but once I tighten it down it might be better to have .13 or .14. Will do! Havent done much to it this past week but I'm going to try to knock out some things tonight!
Hey guys so I'm doing a little bit of work on the 84 harness. Soldered in new small cap ICM connector, fixed a bunch of nasty wires and wire junctions, and im laying out which wires will be part of bank #1 and #2. But before I start adding injectors I need to know which of the two XFire injector wires are the hots and which two are grounds. Looked through my book but couldn't find it. Can any one help remind me??
Also why does any 86 harness have all of the hots grouped together and all the grounds grouped together for each bank?? Doesn't make sense to me but maybe one of you experts could explain this to me??
Originally Posted by qws
You can easily use the 84's existing harness. Once the AIR system is removed it leaves you two additional wires in the harness that aren't used. Those can then be used for the IAT, Make one pin change at the ecm and your done. Wire up for the additional injectors using the existing crossfire's injector and wiring.
Which AIR wires are you talking about? There are two connectors for the AIR system, one has only two wires and the other has 3. I'm guessing you mean the one with only two wires but I want to make sure. Also where did these pin into the ECM for you? I know you have ham board so it might be different but maybe you can help. Edit: Was looking over your build and found it, from pin 16 to pin 21. Was there a pin in 21? Edit #2: No pin in 21 and I figure out which connector you are talk about. It works ok like this? Looking at the EBL connection drawings and a pin swapping diagram bob sent me it shows that your wire/pin 21(in old connector, C12 in 86 connector) should run through CTS and TPS. Where as in the 84 harness this wire does not connect into either of these sensors. Edit #3: Last edit lol wire that runs to CTS and TPS is a simply ground so it doesn't matter.
Once I get this last little bit of wiring done ill have to swap ECM connectors on harness and then I can reinstall harness and start putting everything back together!!
Hello all, it has been a while sense I have done an update. I have mainly been working on the engine harness. Replaced the old ECM connectors with the new ones which wasn't to bad then went to work installing new injector wire. It took me awhile to install them bc the first way I did it (4 new wire to old wire) didn't work out very well. My solder gun and leak of experience limited me from doing it like this which is the way its desined on the 86 harness. This forced me to solder one wire to old, then every inch or so solder another wire in. I built and installed all the new wires then decied I didn't like it very much and thought of a better way. So I then removed 4ish hours of work and just ran one power and one ground per side and will use the wires on the injectors to T into the power and ground. In theory this should work as its the same (I hope) and its still in parrell. This allows me to have 12 less wires in total. I was thinking that this wouldn't work bc the front injectors would get less current to them but I don't think that they use much in the first place. I am no expert with electircial circits so we will see! Then I move on to wiring in a IAT sensor. I moved one pin that is no longer used for EBL ECM (AIR Control Solinoid) to its new location and installed new ground wire. I think I could have grounded it anywhere but EBLs connection drawings depicted the ground connecting into the coolant temp and TPS sensor grounds so that is where I tapped into. It also makes for a cleaner product as I wont have grounds everywhere. Then I removed the rest of the AIR and EGR wires bc they will not be used. If someone wants to know more about how I set this up I can explain in better detail. You also have to splice two wires together. After that I started to intall the other half of the engine harness that I didn't have to remove, but I had the overwhelming desire to completely rework it. The wiring IMO just runs everywhere and it looks like crap. I will most likely end up pulling it out and reworking it but we'll see.
Anyway that is most of it. I do have an interesting theory tho that a TPI set up can be completed without having the change the ECM. If the 84 injectors fire at the same time which is what I suspect then you wouldn't have to change ECMs. Although the 84 ECM is much slower, would have to be able to data log, and you wouldn't have a IAT sensor this way. Either way, you don't have to pull the either harnesses like I did FYI. I would probably be done if I hadn't pulled them.
Hey all, so I changed the wiring a little bit on the other half of the harness (goes to the dash that reads sensors like oil temp and alternator to starter wire). I also pulled the heads this afternoon and wow what a mess! To start with the plugs I was using were not long enough for the Vortec style combustion chambers. 10 maybe more of the inner/secondary (not sure what they are actually named) valve springs were broken! Luckily they didn't disintegrate. Only two chunks of the inner valve had worked their way out of the valve spring and were sitting down by the head bolts. The broken springs were also causing the umbrellas to work their way up. Lastly the CC and pistons were very dirty for only being 2 years old but that's what you get when oil was being pulled from every where into them. Tomorrow I will bring the heads to my local shop so I can clean them, inspect the valve springs, any damage, and add new springs to my order list. Guess that's what you get for ordering preassembled heads.
Hey all, talk to summit today to get recommendations on valve springs and they gave me a part number but said I needed check/verify the valve install height first. So I took my heads in to clean them up a little and do some measurements. I will put up pics tomorrow but I think I figured out why they failed. To start with the install height is .02" more than it should be and is right at the line of being to large so I might get some shims for them. Secondly, and the reason I suspect that the valves failed, is that the spring seat pocket is 1.66" but the OD of the spring is only 1.26" which allowed the spring to "dance" in the pocket, binding the inner spring and caused it to break. I'm going to talk to some local shops to see if this is actually a problem and if they have any insight. Then I will have to look to see if summit sells new spring seats in the specs that I need to remedy this problem. Just goes to show how much attention to detail there is when building an engine. Thought this intake swap was going to be easy but things always seem to come up.
Without this place I wouldn't be able to do 98% of my work
Checking the spring install height
This is what im talking about. With the large gap between the spring and spring seat cup the spring would dance in the cup. Only reason it wouldnt dance is if it centered at the bottom by the spring seat. Im not engine builder so I am not sure if this is ok or not.
Didn't get a chance to talk to my local shops but if they are open tomorrow I will. You guys have any idea about this?
I missed the reply about the spring seat, i assume you have it covered now.
it's been a while since i looked into it, and my heads had springs and seats from edlebrock all setup (not counting my porting, polishing, and general cleanup).
The spring seats if i remember correctly were a pretty solid fit, not much slop if any at all...
I have to pull my heads this winter due to a copper headgasket that is just not working out at all.
Drove me nuts trying to figure out a weird cooling issue related to my coolant overflow...
I'm thinking about stroking the engine as long as i'll have it apart...
Thanks DMITTZ, and its alright Gibbles. I was looking up new spring seats a little while ago but I haven't recently.
Yeah unfortunately I haven't been able to do much work on it lately. Went on leave for a month in September and as soon as I got back I had to go to school for my job for the last month. I have been spending 15+ hours a day on class and homework so not much personal time. Luckily I only have a week left. Hopefully I can get to work on it soon and get it finished before the snow starts to fly!
Thanks DMITTZ, and its alright Gibbles. I was looking up new spring seats a little while ago but I haven't recently.
Yeah unfortunately I haven't been able to do much work on it lately. Went on leave for a month in September and as soon as I got back I had to go to school for my job for the last month. I have been spending 15+ hours a day on class and homework so not much personal time. Luckily I only have a week left. Hopefully I can get to work on it soon and get it finished before the snow starts to fly!
Thanks for the reply, I wish you all the best with your schooling. I totally understand about not having much time to spare. I had to backburner sorting out the last few details on my corvette also due to work, schooling a home reno etc... hopefully early next year I'll get a chance to finish my project. I'm planning to convert to EBL flash also so I'll look forward to seeing how your corvette turns out once you get some more time.
07-24-2017, 09:24 PM
